Another Visionless Rant
I wanna rant! I need to say something right here right now. Just the thought of having to sit in a meeting to talk about what we OUGHT to do, SHOULD do, or MUST do, just makes me want to hurl. Just the thought of sitting listening to someone reiterate the vision and try to fire me up to follow it makes me want to quit even before I join. I absolutely love the saying of Jesus, “Come to me all you who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest!” I’m telling you people: this world is full of people weary and heavy laden with the expectations of religion and its leaders. That’s what Jesus was talking about. When he saw the people so burdened and vexed without a shepherd, that’s what he was talking about. When he chastised the religious leaders for laying burdens on people without lifting a finger to help them, that’s what he was talking about. No amount of our talented tweaking is going to change the weight of the burden, only it’s appearance. Let the visions and agendas go! They are only burdensome expectations in modern fancy dress.
I live with teenagers and their friends. Our house is often full of them… loud, funny, wild, uncontrollable, disobedient and visionless. All they want to do is hang. That’s it. That is life’s pleasure for them. And it is enough. It is enough! What can be better than being together, loving each other, challenging each other to be more authentic, and laughing? What can be better? Save the world? From what? They’ll tell you, “Let’s save the world from assholes who are trying to shape us into something other than what we are!” “Do NOT sell your soul to any agenda for any price!” They’re rubbing off on us, and it ain’t all bad! What can be better for Lisa and me than to be among these lunatics, laughing with them, teasing them, affirming them in their beauty and aimlessness, and receiving their reckless affection? Answer me that!
The pic is of my daughter Casile, my son Jesse, and just a few of their goofy friends.
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It’s funny…God loves you and everyone else has a plan for your life. With a vision (personal or “corporate”) it’s so much easier to tell people “no.”
On a stronger note:
“What can be better than being together, loving each other, challenging each other to be more authentic, and laughing?”
Our purpose is to “know God and enjoy him forever.” That will be complete in heaven. Now we “see in a glass darkly.” Why?
Why would God do that to us? Why would he leave us here in the trials, tribulations, pressures of earthly life?
For ONE PURPOSE ONLY–to represent him to those who do not know him.
Not to sit around patting each other on the back and enjoying each other’s company. God forbid we become so jaded by pressures, “Christian culture,” expectations, etc., that we forget God’s heart and consign the lost to hell because of our bad experiences.
You don’t have to succumb to church tradition (new or old).
You don’t have to be the same as everyone else.
You don’t have to listen to people who try to mold you into someone that you are not.
You don’t have to abandon your family.
You don’t have to conform to a cookie cutter.
You don’t have to be fake.
You just need to live out your life according to how he made you, where he put you, in your own bent, with your own gifts, talents, personality, etc.
And let your heart beat with God’s heart with a passion for those who don’t know him.
“Do you see, do you see
All the people sinking down
Don’t you care, don’t you care
Are you gonna let them drown
How can you be do numb
Not to care if they come
You close your eyes
And pretend the job’s done
“oh bless me lore, bless me lord”
You know it’s all i ever hear
No one aches, no one hurts
No one even sheds one tear
But he cries, he weeps, he bleeds
And he cares for you needs
And you just lay back
And keep soaking it in
Oh can’t you see it’s such a sin
’cause he brings people to you door
And you turn them away
As you smile and say
“god bless you, be at peace”
And all heaven just weeps
’cause jesus came to you door
You’ve left him out on the streets
Open up open up
And give yourself away
You see the need, you hear the cries
So how can you delay
God’s calling and you’re the one
But like jonah you run
He’s told you to speak
But you keep holding it in
Of can’t you see it’s such a sin
The world is sleeping in the dark
That the church just can’t fight
’cause it’s asleep in the light
How can you be so dead
When you’ve been so well fed
Jesus rose from the grave
And you, you can’t even get out of bed
Oh, Jesus rose from the dead
Come on get out of your bed”
- Keith Green.
I wanna know what triggered the Nakedpastor RAGE! Did Stephen Covey and Rick Warren throw you in the back of a van this morning and take you for a long drive?
Teens are fantastic for all the reasons you mention, but let’s not forget that they can tend towards laziness and self-centeredness. I think it’s part of the wonderful process of growing up, but if there can be that balance in the end (wildness + maturity), then community-wise, you’re onto something.
NP, I agree that religiosity places an ungodly burden on many Christians.
This is why I appreciate your unconventional approach to how a church should function.
I think, however, we must be careful not to forget the church’s primary purpose: chiefly, to seek and save those who are lost.
Any church that elevates “just hanging out together” above the crucial task of evangelizing, will inevitably become insular, ineffective and stagnant. A fresh, steady stream of new believers re-vitalizes and enhances the common life of the church.
If the church’s primary focus is the joy we gain from being around each other, then is it anything more than a sanctified social club?
We participate and cooperate with God seeking and saving the lost by the credibility that comes from a witness of love.
It’s the invitation to “come hang with us”…always extended, always articulated…
come hang with us and see God’s love in the flesh.
come hang with us and know that God sent Jesus because Jesus is revealed in our hanging out–our loving, our belonging, our stubborn refusal to separate when things get hard.
Love is the only credible witness…it’s a false antithesis to set up the communal life of the church as something that exists over and against proclamation.
the communal life of the church IS proclamation for better or worse.
If people aren’t asking about it, it speaks to the failure of the communal witness in deeds, not necessarily the explanation of ideas about God, Jesus, salvation, etc.
just my 2 cents…
I like the way you said that, nathan.
AMEN… AMEN… AMEN NAKED PASTOR!
there is nothing better!
why is there the need when you say something completely positive about teenagers for someone else to point out their flaws!? we all know teenagers are flawed… that was not np’s point… sorry if i’m speaking out of turn n.p.
the point is… when you see them, chilling, sharing, loving and enjoying relating there is nothing better… end of!!!
i’ve said it before, i’ll say it again for anyone who’s willing to trust that i’m not advocating selfishness… RELATIONSHIP IS EVERYTHING! ALL ELSE IS A COP OUT! ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES! it’s attractive… it wins people… it images god in the most profound yet simple way… and it can be damnedly difficult!
nathan… you are right… the invitation to come hang with us is important… provided we do not introduce agenda’s into the hanging… i fear this is what church does, which is why i never invited anyone!
n.p. you are not losing it… you are finding it!!! enjoy!
What so few realize is how powerful it is to just hang out together as a means of seeking to save the lost.
I was in a Christian bookstore this past weekend. I heard a lady ask the sales clerk for a good book for a “young man who is struggling.” She didn’t ask me the question - I was eavesdropping - so I bit my tongue. What I wanted to tell her was that when someone is struggling they don’t need a book, they need you. When we create a community that is an expression of God’s love we create a place like no other on earth, a place where God is present and powerful, a place that is irresistible, a place that you will bring your friends and loved ones to with the absolute confidence that they will be accepted and loved, a place where they will encounter - and yes, learn - of God. That isn’t a substitute for evangelism, that is evangelism - not as an act, a ministry or a program, but as the way of life in a community.
It’s hard for us to get our heads around what you’re saying, NakedPastor. I think that’s because we’ve never seen it before.
Wow, jon b, sorry you took my post as being negative. I certainly agree that the ideals of youth are never to be forgotten or subdued.
(make mental note: no being a devil’s advocate allowed!)
Elizabeth: i don’t agree that the primary mission of the church is to reach and to save the lost.
interesting discussion, and all reflects on similar issues in our community. NP - just on your last comment - if that is not the pirmary mission of the church, what do you think is? I’m not trying to flush you out here, I just have been in similar discussions lately, and would like your opinion.
If that’s not the primary mission of the church on earth, then what is it? I would say that it’s more accurate to say that the Church’s primary mission is to represent Christ to others (or “the lost”).
But what else is there?
jon birch,
Yes, relationship is everything. We don’t need “programs of evangelism” at the expense of relationship. If Christ is living in and through us, then “hanging out” is all you really need, because Christ is bigger than us–he can’t help but “leak out.”
No way Dave. If not to spread the Kingdom, then what?? In Luke 10:9, Jesus says “Heal the sick who are there and tell them, ‘the kingdom of God is near you’”.
Community and relationship rock… hey we love our ability to be real. Take community to the people. Take caring, real relationships. Take love to people. Show them true love and show them Jesus. Real Jesus. Not rules, rigidity and religion.
Most of what we call “saving the lost” is manipulation around getting people to agree to a few theological ideas. People who are “lost” are disconnected with the Divine and the only way I know of getting connected to the Divine is in the community of loving people. (Christian or otherwise)
If God is love, then I think loving is a whole lot closer to God than preaching and whipping the saints into a frenzy of abnoxious witnesses in the army of God going around getting people to agree with the “true” gospel.
In my experience the “fruit” is a lot sweeter when gained through love.
Maybe we shouldn’t wait for people to come hang with us, but go hang with them - isn’t that what Jesus did?
I wonder how you would propose challenging each other to be more authentic? What’s authentic?
As to vision, ours has been to follow Jesus’ leading to renounce dumping heavy loads on others and to welcome strangers.
In my opinion, Jon Hallewell expresses the the most perfect method of the ’spreading of the gospel’. It’s something that’s natural and organic.
I’m sure no one is talking about manipulating people or seeking out the lost with contrived ways. The point is to not be inwardly-focused. Something can’t spread like wildfire if it’s confined to one place. I’m talking about an attitude, not a method.
actually elizabeth, etc… i’ve found that when a community is genuine and authentic, open is automatic and people are attracted to that. friends come and want to be a part of it because we live in a world full of loneliness and alienation.
So instead of, “Go into all the world…” it’s “Wait for them to come to you…”?
jesus said that to a small group of people who wouldn’t leave the holy city unless instructed. this isn’t to deny some have a missionary call, but my people are already in the world. in fact, to encourage them to BE where they ARE, is the same thing.
Ya, I don’t think it’s all about “Wait for them to come to you…” We’re all too self-centered and selfish by nature. I think we all need to constantly remind ourselves to look to the interests of others (and not just to those we love). I don’t think new friends join by osmosis. The apostles didn’t just sit on the arses waiting for people to show up and hear the good news. And again I’m not talking about being a “missionary”, it’s simply a case of turning our hearts to those outside of our community, not living in a Christian bubble. I’m not saying that we at RV do this, but it’s too easy to forget that it’s not all about seeking our own pleasure.
Even in groups of friends amongst teens, there’s that natural tendency to be cliquish. It takes an effort to remember that people often need to be invited into relationship.
Honestly… i think there is some merit in your arguments…
But it’s the people with vision that set the atmosphere to facilitate (and serve) people who are “gifted” like you to function how God burdens them..
but if the church ALL functioned like that I think we’d be surprised by the outcome. God gifts leaders as such for a purpose too. To crap on vision is foolish.
I have a feeling I’ll know your response to this…
i’d like to remind people of my original definition of “vision”: “a corporate long term goal”. that’s what i’m dissing.
I’m kind of wondering if there are some particular things going on right now that are making NP feel restrained? I sense a lot of frustration, but I may be misreading…
Maybe David’s frustration stems from the fact that Lisa is going away this weekend to party hearty with us women on our ladies retreat!
Thanks for hammering the “visionless” point home yet once again David. We in the over mid-thirties crowd may never fully understand this shift…and if we do figure it out, it will probably be more on a theoretical level more than experiential.
Yesterday, Kyle my oldest child, had his 2007 grad book out and my wife had her early 80’s grad book out. Kyle’s book had comments about relationships and the real person where Shonna’s book had comments on aspirations, goals and accomplishments. Sounds like light years apart in thinking and in values.
Last point - what’s up with this word “evangelism” and the concept of saving the lost outside the church. Can we as followers of Christ bury the “e” word, drop our dualistic worldview and just start loving on God and people.
I don’t think the problem is “evangelism”, it’s the disortion of what the church thinks it looks like. Kari, when you say “drop our dualistic worldview and just start loving on God and people”, I’d say that’s exactly how it should be defined.
maybe i just need a beer. or two.
actually, i’m not angry i don’t think. i had a conversation recently with someone who was telling me all the vision casting that was going on at their church. the thing is, it was all about how we can be more this and that… more on the cutting edge, etc… i felt myself falling asleep when i was being told the story. this is what i’m talking about.
but i do think it’s just the beer.
More on the cutting edge??? That’s like saying more of a cutting edge parent, spouse, friend…..oh groan, a sleeper of a conversation for sure. Hope you have lots of beer in the fridge for the weekend!
I think you can have a “long-term corporate goal” to “do, achieve, etc., etc.,” but you can also have a “long-term corporate goal” to be or become something.
Beer is good. Maybe just the right remedy for right after long winded meetings.
You ladies have fun on your retreat:)
“If Christ is living in and through us, then “hanging out” is all you really need, because Christ is bigger than us–he can’t help but “leak out.””
yup!
heidi… i was on a rant! apologies for my rudeness! please be the advocate of any devil you choose!
‘crapping on’ any vision (however i define it) is only foolish if my vision is of an arse that’s bigger than the one i’ve been blessed with! that would be truly foolish!
Interesting. In theory I guess I agree. Then again, it sounds like this is “your” vision.
Can a pastor lead in such a way as to equip his/her congregation to accomplish something together that separately they may not be able to accomplish on their own without being burdensome?
hanging out is important, no doubt
i do not possess the gift of evangelism. but i do go out “in the world” and shine my little light. the only way we reach out is to reach out. can’t do that in our own safe secure little circle of believers.
don’t have to possess the gift of evangelism to have a conversation or two
lor… who said anything about a ’safe secure little circle of believers’? it could easily be an unsafe insecure little group of believers… even they are attractive to others if their relationships are real…. aren’t they? and there is nothing wrong with going out into the world and shining your little light… go for it, reach out… it’s clearly who you are and it sounds good! and whoever told you you don’t have the gift of evangellism was probarbly wrong! jesus excelled at having ‘a conversation or two’.
hi jon birch!
must have been my interpretation of it. it’s sometimes my safe little circle - my comfort zone, my people who get me. i just meant it’s easy for me to find myself hanging there and only there because it’s what feels comfortable. that ‘conversation or two’ can be difficult and don’t always work out well. even when I intentionally low key them… so much resentment and anger at God out there. it doesn’t come second nature to me.
I do have to remind myself that the church - we - exist to reach out to those who don’t yet know what it is to have a relationship with God - a real relationship and not just religion, with a God who loves them and is just waiting to flood them with grace.
it’s humbling how quickly I can fall back into my ‘comfort zone’ when clearly Jesus calls us to carry a cross. and how quickly I can transfer my agenda for my 15 year old onto him… get good grades, prepare for college, do your best for yourself and for God. and while there’s nothing inherently wrong in any of that, I’m not exactly stepping back and saying “wherever you take him, God” or “Jon (my son), as long as your happy, I’m happy.”
so yea, I have a vision for him. uh oh
Dave… have you ever considered vision can come out of relationship? Have you ever considered that some wh follow a vision, or set of goals for their life actually feel a sense of freedom? Have you ever considered that the church can be healthy and authentic with vision?
Your “rant” as someone has said is coming from somewhere. Someone once said: ‘Out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks.” So, why all the pain? Why all the distain? Why all the discontent? Why all the boredom? Why all the frustration of not liking what you do?
I would suggest you move from the book of Lamentations and jump into Proverbs for a while.
tired of jumping around
lor… ‘come to me all who are weary and heavy laden’… someone quoted this somewhere on this blog i think. i think it’s good to fall into the safety of friends… heaven knows i have to, or i’d go mad. jesus did it so why not you? i think loving people is the biggest witness of all, whether you get to have conversation or not. their anger at god is not your reponsibility or fault and god is big enough to deal with that… we’ve just got to go on loving god and our neighbours. this maybe all rubbish, but i often feel we want to say too much when it would be better to just carry on living loving lives. it’s funny, but whenever the state church in this country makes a statement, pretty much everyone in the country resents it… this to me speaks volumes.
dave… what’s so wrong with anger, distain, discontent, frustration?… these are all great christlike qualities… at least in the bible i read they are!
ps. lor… it was dave who quoted it at the top, having read it again… doh!
Not if you continually live in them.
is someone suggesting i LIVE in these? hm.
Looks a lot like my house … but where are all the dirty dishes that get left laying around?
btw, I notice that whenever I “plan” a youth program or event, no one comes. But when nothing is planned, they show up. So I do very little planning when it comes to youth.
john… looking at the above photo of cool kids hanging out i don’t get that impression of np…
anyhow, in my view there’s nowhere near enough anger, distain, discontent or frustration in our churches… those are just a few of the reasons why i think churches are so often insipid and generally pretty rubbish.
you know, just cruising blogs I get the impression there’s plenty of anger, disdain, discontent and frustration… it’s just totally misdirected
plenty of rants about people who think differently or worship differently (even within Christianity) or live different lifestyles than what people think they should, and not nearly enough anger about injustice, disdain for prejudice, discontent about misrepresentation of Jesus’ words and frustration at the unwillingess to be salt and light rather than fire and brimstone.
looks like a wonderful time at your house, nakedpastorman. nothing I love more than the sound of goofy kids being goofy
lor… i agree. though i wonder whether sometimes injustice, prejudice, discontent etc. are most easily recognised when you feel like you are the victim of them yourself. great if this makes you more empathetic for the plight of others, not so great if it eats you up inside. sometimes these experiences can be a catalyst for change and sometimes they are things you simply have to go through. i think it’s important and healthy not to deny how you feel though… how very un-english of me!
To this post, I raise my glass in toast. Here here! Selah.
NP…you respond to my second paragraph…about distain etc…but not the first…hmmm