Comments on: opinionated old men or youth? http://nakedpastor.com/archives/124 David Hayward is an artist trapped inside a pastor's body. Wed, 07 Jan 2009 01:44:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.4 by: silverfoot http://nakedpastor.com/archives/124#comment-718 Sun, 27 Aug 2006 02:38:28 +0000 http://nakedpastor.com/archives/124#comment-718 fair enough. the invisible fellowship makes perfect sense to me. i don't know that you need to worry about explaining that - i think most people on a spiritual path are connected in that way, regardless of their differences. typically, when i use 'The Church' i mean the Vatican; else, i tend to specify 'The Protestants' (Lutheran or Puritan), on account of being a history geek primarily obsessed with the early modern period (c. 1450-1800s). if i'm talking about the present, i tend to add the terms'evangelical' and 'fundamentalist.' ugh, i sound like a semantic weenie, but i like to know the field; making assumptions about people's terms of reference can turn things ugly really fast. fair enough.

the invisible fellowship makes perfect sense to me. i don’t know that you need to worry about explaining that - i think most people on a spiritual path are connected in that way, regardless of their differences.

typically, when i use ‘The Church’ i mean the Vatican; else, i tend to specify ‘The Protestants’ (Lutheran or Puritan), on account of being a history geek primarily obsessed with the early modern period (c. 1450-1800s). if i’m talking about the present, i tend to add the terms’evangelical’ and ‘fundamentalist.’

ugh, i sound like a semantic weenie, but i like to know the field; making assumptions about people’s terms of reference can turn things ugly really fast.

]]> by: David Hayward http://nakedpastor.com/archives/124#comment-713 Sat, 26 Aug 2006 21:11:40 +0000 http://nakedpastor.com/archives/124#comment-713 Silverfoot: Thanks for your response! I also appreciate your explanation of the origins of your nickname. Cool! I don't feel you're trying to be controversial, but just trying to understand definitions, which I think is important. I think the "church", without being too simplistic, is usually understood two ways: 1. invisibly: the invisible but real fellowship of "Christians" (we'll not get into what that means at this point) around the world from all time. 2. real: the tangible, visible fellowship of "Christians" when they gather together for worship, preaching, fellowship, and ministry. I think that's what we mean, and that encompasses all denominations and people with a wide variety of dogmas. It includes American and Canadian "church", even though they do hold unique differences. Hope that clarifies at least a little. Silverfoot: Thanks for your response! I also appreciate your explanation of the origins of your nickname. Cool! I don’t feel you’re trying to be controversial, but just trying to understand definitions, which I think is important. I think the “church”, without being too simplistic, is usually understood two ways:
1. invisibly: the invisible but real fellowship of “Christians” (we’ll not get into what that means at this point) around the world from all time.
2. real: the tangible, visible fellowship of “Christians” when they gather together for worship, preaching, fellowship, and ministry.
I think that’s what we mean, and that encompasses all denominations and people with a wide variety of dogmas. It includes American and Canadian “church”, even though they do hold unique differences.
Hope that clarifies at least a little.

]]> by: silverfoot http://nakedpastor.com/archives/124#comment-711 Sat, 26 Aug 2006 08:04:08 +0000 http://nakedpastor.com/archives/124#comment-711 *sigh* sometimes it seems like the Institution of 'The Church' (whatever that means) has become so far distanced from what Christ himself said. love, faith, compassion for your fellow man - these are ideals i can get behind. and John calls for people to matter more than ideals, but sometimes it seems the ideals get lost behind the dogma... David - i love that you invoke Luther, here. himself, the staunchest of Catholics, but that heartweary and convinced that his Church was not going to save him. he was never trying to tear down the Catholic Church, just attempting to reform what he saw as very real abuses of authority, and lapses in morality. those who came after him took his teachings in very different directions than he himself intended, and in that way, i think he bears a certain resemblance to Jesus. but... i need to ask about terminology, here. what do we mean when we say The Church? to which church/faith/path are we referring? there is talk of the Canadian church VS the American Church - what are we really talking about here? people seem to be drawing lines in the sand between Us and Them, and i wonder who really occupies those camps - i'm *not* trying to make this confrontational. just asking for a little clarification... *sigh*

sometimes it seems like the Institution of ‘The Church’ (whatever that means) has become so far distanced from what Christ himself said. love, faith, compassion for your fellow man - these are ideals i can get behind. and John calls for people to matter more than ideals, but sometimes it seems the ideals get lost behind the dogma…

David - i love that you invoke Luther, here. himself, the staunchest of Catholics, but that heartweary and convinced that his Church was not going to save him. he was never trying to tear down the Catholic Church, just attempting to reform what he saw as very real abuses of authority, and lapses in morality. those who came after him took his teachings in very different directions than he himself intended, and in that way, i think he bears a certain resemblance to Jesus.

but… i need to ask about terminology, here. what do we mean when we say The Church? to which church/faith/path are we referring? there is talk of the Canadian church VS the American Church - what are we really talking about here? people seem to be drawing lines in the sand between Us and Them, and i wonder who really occupies those camps - i’m *not* trying to make this confrontational. just asking for a little clarification…

]]> by: John http://nakedpastor.com/archives/124#comment-709 Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:08:57 +0000 http://nakedpastor.com/archives/124#comment-709 Nato....simlicity seems to rise to surface! We tend to complicate the "church" or "Christ" to the point we move to a position of confusion. Some call it the ability to search for truth - but the simplicity is what you said: The Church will be accepted or dismissed based on tangible evidence – their actions – and the compassion towards the oppressed, the widows and orphans, and their desire to put People! before ideals. The Church will have to be ‘in this world’ and lend its voice ‘for this world’. The world doesnt give a flying cats *** about the depth of our knowledge we can have - it comes down to coming out of our proverbial shells of religion and take hold of the pure religion of James: "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." James 1:27 God will hold us to account with this!! Sometimes we - as the church - need to get off our ass and just do it! It is the churches responsibility to respond to the need in this world! Doing nothing is no longer an option! Nato….simlicity seems to rise to surface! We tend to complicate the “church” or “Christ” to the point we move to a position of confusion. Some call it the ability to search for truth - but the simplicity is what you said: The Church will be accepted or dismissed based on tangible evidence – their actions – and the compassion towards the oppressed, the widows and orphans, and their desire to put People! before ideals. The Church will have to be ‘in this world’ and lend its voice ‘for this world’.

The world doesnt give a flying cats *** about the depth of our knowledge we can have - it comes down to coming out of our proverbial shells of religion and take hold of the pure religion of James:

“Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.” James 1:27

God will hold us to account with this!!

Sometimes we - as the church - need to get off our ass and just do it! It is the churches responsibility to respond to the need in this world! Doing nothing is no longer an option!

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