I’m On A Bad List!
Hey readers! I just thought I’d give you the heads-up and what’s going to be the talk tomorrow on my blog. Check this out! Ingrid of the famously fundamentalist blog, A Slice of Laodicia, has chosen to critique me under her new category, “Meet the New Pastors”. You gotta read some of the comments! Stay tuned!
blogging, church, ministry, naked pastor, pastor Share This
This should be interesting… By the way, the link is http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=586
How incredibly sad. Ingrid and her echo chamber are judge and jury. Best to be avoided, my friend.
Your link doesn’t work, but it is easy found on Google.
I like your site. (I appreciate Ingrid’s site as well).
Best wishes,
Paul
PS. You are a rambling wanna-be philosopher? Welcome to the club!
the link is broken…
Here’s the link. Since I’m not in church this morning and others of you are, I thought I would go ahead and post it for NP. It is not a fun read. Makes me remember why I’m not in church this morning.
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=586
Can’t wait for tomorrow.
Slice of Laodicia has too much time on their hands. The playground bully spending time bitching about other people rather than actually doing something about advancing the Kingdom.
Brings tears to my eyes… anyone who has not seen the writing in their own sand, probably has a stone in their hands…
I’ve never read a group of such vitriolic comments in my two years of reading blogs. It is very hard for me to accept that these commenters are Christians or spiritual in any sense of the word. I, too, feel very sad for these people. What must their lives be like?
Sigh. There are times where I hate Christians. This is a difficult sin to struggle with, given that I’m a pastor.
Wow! You made SoL - - you are totally big time blogging now
You know, she used to really bother me. Until I realized that you just can’t take people who are that far out there very seriously. Christ never called us to be closed minded to all the wonderful, creative ways He has given us to reach people.
And you can’t call her on anything because she’ll never publish comments to the contrary of her unbelieveably narrow interpretation of what it means to be a dedicated Christ Follower.
nakedpastorman, being slammed by SoL is almost a badge of honor in my book. I hope it is some small comfort that you have now joined the ranks of some remarkably talented men and women (Erwin McManus, Rob Bell, moviepastor, et. al.) who are reaching a new generation for Christ in a very real way.
Keep up the good work!
Oh my DAvid, I had no idea I had a friend who was such a messed up drunk pervert LOL
Boy o Boy they have you tagged. There are a couple comments in there that are utterly shocking. Such Violence. Well it gives us all a glimpse at why when we tell some people we are Christians they wince and squint their eyes trying to not look pained. Oh my, the Jesus they are pedaling is one scary deity……..
After Husband finished reading all the comments on the Slice of Laodacia page, and after the steam had finished escaping from his ears, he agreed that we should buy you a beer for this one!
We could not believe the blind judgment that this produced. It is obvious that most did not even read a word that you have ever written, one insinuated that your were a child molester, others that you are a pervert, and others are sure you are going to hell. On behalf of the Bride - we are sorry. We came from that camp and know there is deliverance.
A beer to you sir!
I’ve managed to stay off her site for over two years now. I don’t know if I am relieved or insulted (wink). Seriously though, you response was gracious.
Peace,
Jamie
Years back, I was blacklisted as well. I was a youth leader at an AG church, and kids in the youth group were eventually told to stay away from me for fear that I would corrupt them with my challenges to the denomination’s position on things like alcohol, dancing, and having my own opinion about things.
I’d like to forget there are people like that out there who wear the name “Christian” but do so little to show God’s love…especially to his body. It’s easy to pass judgment, isn’t it, when you refuse to look objectively at the actual subject matter you’re judging but instead create your own skewed, hate-based “reality”? I understand why people have such a negative opinion of Christians–I do, too.
I appreciate your transparency. Amen to Former Leader’s comments. You deserve a beer for this one!
How does one look like a Christian? I thought we were to show we were Christians by our love, by our love. Not our looks.
Slice is a little shallow, it seems (they criticized me fully back when I used to read the site-I stopped because it was so full of vitriol, I couldn’t stand it), and doesn’t recognize the depth of character that exists within the Christian life.
I may have issues with some people or blog content (I don’t here), but how I can I condemn the person? I can only condemn the actions. Slice readers don’t understand that. Guess they forget that they’re sinners, too.
I just wanted to join the voices of your supporters. You can know you are truly having an impact when you have such vocal enemies. I have never been offended on your site. Then again, I’m an evil postmodern with no morals.
I made a comment and it was removed. Though I can’t remember it verbatim..I remember asking if this site was satire and making a comment that we expect our Pastors to be more than human we are setting them up for failure.
HMPH
Dave, I read their comments and winced in pain over and over for what they presume to know about you as a person and pastor! I was going to respond but what’s the point…they are peddalling their version of christianity and what they believe to be true…just as we do. Except they are throwing rocks, big ones…and that says volumes!
David,
I don’t know whether to congratulate you or say a prayer for you or wish you well in spite of the crap written there. Keep on doing what you are doing. Your work is much appreciated by many, myself included.
I put up a nice long love letter to all the folks at Laodicea which I am waiting to have moderated. It’s interesting how to other people who wrote comments long after me already have theirs approved. It’s also a coincidence that their comments were all in support of take down Naked Pastor. What I had to say was perhaps shocking for them, but I honestly thought I used tact. I will post here for you folks what I wrote so that it doesn’t get lost in the anals of fundamentalist disinterest. I used Jane(my middle name) as my screen name because I wasn’t into my real name being posted on their strange site. I went a little heavy with the old testament style of speech, it seems to be their native tongue. Anyway here is what I wrote:
Jane Says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
I will pray for all of you as Brother’s and Sister’s in Christ, that your attitude of violence be recognized and your spirit would bear witness to it’s deceit. Who has made you a judge among men. This man seems if not our perfect idea of a Pastor, a genuine caring person. I have read through his site and his posts always seem to be intelligent. His is a obvious boundary pusher, but that is not necessarily negative. He causes us to think…..is our faith so fragile that it can not be tested by another mans words. It is no sin to have an opinion and I see no malice in his intentions. He is not some flagrant pervert endorsing illicit sexual acts. It seems perhaps some of us have misinterpreted this apparent wolf in sheep’s clothing. Perhaps he is a shepherd trying just as hard as other shepherds to lead his flock in the way he knows best. If we can not offer any words of brotherly advice or our personal opinions in a respectful way, then how are we different than animals, who look only to dominate and be territorial without reason. It seems there is more fear floating around here than any logic or Christ like love. I see the pointing finger of the Pharisees, the white washed tombs. Take a look at yourselves, I who count myself among you as a believer in Christ, don’t let fear run your life, God is bigger than that. He would invite Naked Pastor into his home just as he invited all manner of men be they sinners and saints, and if he would show him such respect, where does that leave us who are so ready to throw him out. Be gentle and offer prayer and a word of advice if you are not in agreement with his teachings, that is Christlike. He is very open to conversation from what I see about him, offer your wisdom and perhaps you can lead him to some spiritual water.
Somehow, against all hope…….I don’t think my comment will be moderated. But perhaps Ingrid got a good read, oh well, I’m just another liberal alcoholic pervert try’n best as I can to get by in this old world. I’m not saying these things to be spiteful, I am just honest to goodness shocked and it scares me thoroughly. It’s not that I didn’t know people thought this way….it’s just bizarre to hear it from so many people at once. It’s a witch hunt this Slice page, that’s what it’s based on. Finding modern day heretics veiled as pastors and church leaders. Exposing “apparent” juggling evangelists as being lazy liberal fanciful idiots. Just when you thought you had nothing better to do……………
OOPs! I just accidentally posted this on the Slice website thinking it was this one. Yikes, well her it is anyway
Okay, I have to post their site list. It’s too funny…..here are the subject choices in their menu. Their are some I left out but here are the most interesting….my favorites being, Hear the Hiss, and Wolf Watch.
* Abominations
* Biblically Run Churches
* Christian Womanhood
* Church Marketing
* Circus Church
* Environmentalism
* False Teachers
* Feminism
* Hall of Shame Award
* Hear the Hiss
* Homosexuality
* Idol Factories
* Merchandising Christ
* Occult
* Purpose Driven Madness
* Sound Doctrine
* Wolf Watch
* Youth Ministry Gone Bad
Oh my…….like said, just when you think you have nothing better to do……they may have something to say on purpose driven madness…but I think it’s more like they are purposefully trying to drive me mad.
I also left a supportive comment over there which apparently didn’t make the cut…I guess they don’t like hearing that they would have been in the camp that called Jesus a drunkard and a glutton…though I believe I said it carefully and graciously. It’s becoming very apparent to me that when we start preaching real grace, there is generally a strong response, either positive or negative.
Not entirely sure how to respond to all this. I’ve been thinking all day about how quick Christians can be to judge and condemn, based on some narrow view of righteousness or what “Christian” man/womanhood ought to look like. Then I stopped by here and followed your link to find more judgmental people who seem so quick to condemn when they don’t possess even a fraction of the facts. I guess it’s human nature to make ourselves feel better by condemning others and to need some outward checklist of who is living a Godly spiritual life and who isn’t. I don’t know your heart, or the heart of the people commenting about you for that matter, but it seems to me from reading your blog that you love God and the people in your church and you’re willing to admit that loving people is a difficult and messy business.
I have to agree with what Wes said up the page a bit. As a youth pastor I sometimes get very, very frustrated with my brothers and sisters of a more conservative (or perhaps fundamentalist is the better word?) view. It seems that God has recently been forcing me to deal with some of my issues in this realm. *raises glass* To difficult growth experiences.
There’s some pretty funny stuff up on the SoL blog. How cool that she would take the time to bash you! It is crap like SoL that made me leave the church, only to return and become a pastor. Best of luck!
I have a friend who said something which I will always remember. It was one Sunday after church and he was very graciously fielding complaints about the music he had just played.
After he left we were talking about it, and he said something like “It isn’t rock and roll if it doesn’t piss someone off”.
In some ways I am jealous, I wish I was dangerous enough that people needed to warn their friends about me.
The funny thing here is, Naked Pastor, surely you say some of these things, not because you want people to think that you are a pastor into porn or erotic art, but so you can throw a few elbows, tick a few people off. I get the distinct impression that you make comments you know will be taken out of context as offensive, and that this “uproar” is exactly the kind of attention you want. Now, I could be wrong about that. But that’s my take.
Also, I used to think that the Slice people were crazy myself, but I think that they (I’m not taking up for the commentors) are only trying to stand for what they see as right when viewed in light of the Word. The only standard for living as a believer must be a biblical, not cultural, one, and we must defend it for our lives because, even though one commentor of yours was being sarcastic, I believe that there was some truth in her comment that “…the Jesus they are pedaling is one scary deity….” May we never forget that, for all of his love, God is a God to be feared.
Thanks for the warning. It’s good to know you’re a heretical, blasphemous, hedonistic pervert. I’ll be more careful when talking to you from now on.
I left a comment that didn’t make it past Ingrid, too. It might have been refused because of sheer length (I addressed almost each comment made with a comment of my own), but I’m pretty sure it was the “dangerous content” that got my words the Golden Muzzle.
Here were the last two paragraphs of the comment that apparently was for Ingrid’s eyes only:
“I realize that some of my comments were very sarcastic and harsh. I bet some of you felt just a sting of indignation at my jabs. It doesn’t feel good to be judged by others. It doesn’t feel good to be skinned alive by fellow believers.
As a survivor of spiritual abuse at the hands of some very judgmental, legalistic, and self-righteous believers, I am begging all of you to PLEASE treat your fellow believers (including nakedpastor) with some level of love. If you can’t give him bear hugs with wholehearted abandon, at least give him a quiet nod instead of a knife in the back.”
Congratulations! Not just a link, but a full FEATURE on Slice! That’s when you know you’ve become far too much like Jesus for the pharisees to be comfortable.
If getting on Slice doesn’t deserve a beer I don’t know what does. Cheers!
These are the same people who–at least if all the comments are genuine (some are so ridiculous that I suspect at least a few are made by trolls)–find Veggie Tales blasphemous and are threatened by the term Magic Marker.
Sigh….. I would have left a nice comment over at SOL, but in the past my nice comments have never been printed. The heresy hunters always seem to be carrying such a monstrous weight on their shoulders. The burden seems so heavy - the yoke so painfully drawn.
May the unfathomable depth, breadth, majesty, and awe-giving reality of the living Christ overtake His entire community: from those who follow a Big Dictionary Policeman, to those who have long abandoned the graven images of selfish religious perception, and all of us in between.
p.s. I like what Michael Toy said: “I wish I was dangerous enough that people needed to warn their friends about me.”
Hmmm…I feel a bit left out - my comments got posted fine over at SoL. Of course I tried to avoid the sarcastic remarks and took a more roundabout (read: gentle) approach.
Wow! How did you start such a fire? Just think, we will spend a long time with those folks in the future. I hope I live on the other side of the tracks from these folks….
You could make it easy for them and post all us “new pastors” together in one place.
My mom used to say that if the Southern Baptists (read Fundamentalists) were running heaven, she was making reservations elsewhere!
I’m with her!
dave, like those commenters on that blog who chose to ignore you, please do the same. i grew up with these people. it’s not worth it. run away…
Wow. That’s just…WOW.
New to this blog and new to SOL also. Think they know the other interpretation of SOL?
Amen, Wes et al. With Christians like these, who needs lions?
I read your comment on the Slice Web site, David. You continue to act with grace, humor, and thoughtfulness. May more pastors continue to bear their soul!
Consider it an act of humble service, Dave.
You’ve helped the shrieking banshee make her daily tantrum quota
Sorry, David. My mom says I can’t talk to you any more.
Again.
Reading the comments on the site makes you wonder who they are talking about,they got it so wrong. Guess its better they dont like you than to really love you. Like we do! We love our “naked ” pastor.
An amazing man once prayed, “Father forgive them for they know not what they do”.
I follow His example and pray, Father please forgive them for they know not what they do. They stand with stones in their hands yelling crucify him.. and they know nothing of who he is nor of who You are in him.
I am truly shocked and well I simply feel saddened for the lady, Belle, who felt the need to speak on everyone’s behave that nakedpastor is a pervert and she wouldn’t leave her children in a room alone with him. Oh Belle, to stand in judgement of a man you know nothing about and to slander him all the while praising the Lord out the other side of your mouth. I am sad for you.
I find this all so hard to read, having been jaded by the church so badly myself, and then to see their comments when they do not even know the person of whom they speak so venomously. Oh God, if this is Your Bride.. how Your heart must greive. If this is the church, please LET ME OUT!!!!!
Jesus, is this like it was when they yelled “CRUCIFY HIM” when You walked this earth? Why does the church rise up against each other in the same way?? I don’t understand.
Ingrid, let me share with you.. a bit of who I know this man to be.. this man that you have allowed those on your blog to slander, judge, and throw stones at. He is far from a pervert. And ya’ll would be so lucky to have him in a room with your children. He is a man of integrity, authencity, and who lives his life without pretense. He is a worshipper, a lover of God. He accepts others and loves them. He has been there for me when no one else was. He stood by me and showed me Jesus in the midst of a time in my life when I wanted to run far from the church. He is an encourager. He is a pastor who sheperds his flock with a heart for them and does not chase the dollar or the big church mantality. He stands when others would have crumbled, because he leans on Christ. That’s just a bit of this man that I know and love and not only call my pastor, but my friend.
Ingrid, when you allow those on your blog to attack him and his leadership… and comment on those of us who sit in his community.. you are attacking me. I want you to know that I forgive your ignorance.
I have to wonder if this type of thing shocks the stuff out of us like it does… what does God think?
“I will feed My flock and I will lead them to rest,” declares the Lord GOD. I will seek the lost, bring back the scattered, bind up the broken and strengthen the sick; but the fat and the strong I will destroy I will feed them with judgment.” (Ezekiel 34:15-16)
interesting timing on this, david. having been blacklisted by slice in the past, and this week slammed by ken silva and another hate-blog, i posted this thought today:
there is a great blindness when one remakes jesus into someone who would only approve of oneself, want to spend time with oneself, or agree with oneself.
tonite, at our youth workers convention in guatemala city, with 2500 youth workers from all over central america, the closing message was from a beautiful passage: Ephesians 5:9 — for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth. seems appropriate.
That reminded me why I rather be not associated with “Christians” anymore…
I think you must be doing something right when you stir up people like that. I enjoy nakedpastor because you makes me think about what being a Christian means. It is not just being able to quote scripture and use it to make rules. It is being able to love the person who quotes scripture and makes rules.
yuck np! you really are a filthy whore…
“He’s a pervert. He’s somebody I would never allow myself or my children to be in a room alone with.”
yep… it’s true… they’ve convinced me… and now i’ve seen the error of your ways i feel so very let down! ONLY JOKING!
man this stuff is very disturbing… funny, yet i didn’t laugh! it really is a reminder of what is out there!
the one thing that did make me smile was a commenter who went by the name of ‘merry’ and didn’t seem very merry at all! ironic.
(Here is my post vto the Slice still awaiting moderation?)
How easy to sit in our homes in front of our computers and judge someone we have never met!
Could we say the same things sitting face to face with this other person and offer up the same insightful yet sometime malicious character assassinations?
Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
Who are we trying to impress with our lofty thoughts and criticisms posted for all the world to see?
Are we not the Body of Christ?
If I were still non-Christian I would run from anything as self-righteous and condemning as (what is supposed to be) a body of loving brothers and sisters emulating the selfless life of Jesus
Where is the Love? Can we so easily judge someone by a name or by a few selected posts or photos?
Look into your own hearts and first, remove the planks from your own eyes I personally know this man the “naked Pastor” He is a very controversial individual who loves unconditionally and hides nothing from his congregation.
Go and visit the man sit in on one of his sermons have a cup of coffee with him before you pass judgment on him you may be pleasantly surprised
How can we love the outcasts of society the drug addicted the homeless drunkards if we can not even love one of our own?
Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
Reminds me of a seinfeld episode, when Jerry tried to help a guy(Abu I think) with a failing restaurant who then gets deported- Veddy, veddy bad man - ! they sure got the knives out for ya -
I found it especially funny how they judged your efforts to be transparent so hard - even using the genesis story.
You can tell you have created God in your own image when it turns out that he or she hates all the same people you do.
– Anne Lamott
It seems that God has been made into the image of the fundamentalist in this case.
I left a comment, but I am sure it won’t be posted. I wasn’t horrible, I just have a feeling that only supportive, ego-stroking comments will be allowed.
here’s the comment I left in case they don’t post it there.
You know, I have been a Christian for a long time. I have seen lots of things in churches, people, movements..etc.
If we want to talk about what’s real and Christlike, let’s start with Blogs and writing which has the sole purpose of vilifying, trashing and purposely being accusatory towards others for the sole purpose of building traffic and congratulating oneself on how glad one is that they are not as unholy and despicable as other people.
It reminds me of the image of the Pharisee thanking God that he is so holy and not as disgusting as the sinners and tax collectors in the temple.
Well, we all know what Jesus thought about that.
Even if you disagree with nakedpastor, no one deserves to be verbally torn to pieces to provide “edification” to others.
James 3:9-10
With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God’s likeness. Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers this should not be.
Romans8:6-7
6″: For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7″: Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Revelations3:17-18,16:15
17″: Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
“18″: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
16:15
“15″: Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
I think it’s great when people learn to do a computer search on the Bible using the words carnal and naked.
Even the fundies know how to use the “evil” technology.
All this has reminded me of my 2 year old granddaughter who upon leaving the shower will run through the house, beat her chest and scream at the top of her lungs, “I’m NAKKIEEEEEEE!!!!
It’s a beautiful sight, not fraught with sexual tension but with amazing wonderment. They aren’t gonna take that away from me or her.
I figured you wouldn’t care about what the bible had to say about the issues. Don’t you just go by what some hip teacher tells you. The bible says that you should tell the truth in love. What does that mean. The truth, the scripture, the whole scripture not half scriptures, should be told in a loving manner but needs to be told. If you don’t tell the truth, the scripture, than you don’t love. It is a lie that you can win people by being nice to them or being weird so that they want what you have. Everywhere in the bible when people accepted they were told the gospel. Look up some of the things that Jesus said and Paul and Peter said when dealing with false teachers and those who were trying to mislead the sheep. I will pray for you like I pray for the whole “evangelical” church and hope one day that the church will turn from embracing the world and shun the things satan has to offer. Either way the church will turn by choice or by God trying it by fire.
Wow! Take it as a badge of honor to be seen as dangerous by SOL.
It’s just a shame that there isn’t a nice pithy quote calling you a horny heretic that you could post as an “endorsement” in your sidebar
My mama always told me that one should be careful what one prays for.
James5:16
16″: Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
My bible not my mama tells me to pray for healing. And I will pray for the healing of the church.
Jeremy, the main point of what I see in what you said is… “in love”.
Do a search on verses that contain the word love.. you’ll find Jesus there.
Priscilla, don’t you just love the innocence of children!! I’d rather be NAKIIIEEEEEE than to be sound covered in religious garments that I lose sight of why Jesus came.
He was crucified for us, that we might have abundant life. To love unconditionally like He did.. oh that is my prayer. WITHOUT condition.. without qualifications.. life changing love!!
Thanks for your prayers Jeremy.. I in turn add mine for your life. May you know Him deeply and passionately and may He pour out His truth on your life as only He can do.
One other note, Jeremy, why are you suggesting that we look up scriptures on false teachers? Are you making the judgement that nakedpastor is a false teacher?? Were you in our service on Sunday and I didn’t see you? I’m not sure you’ve had the opportunity to even hear him teach have you? Maybe you’ve read some of this thoughts here on this blog… but have you ever heard him teach from the Bible?? How can you make a judgement on a man you don’t even know?? Wow that’s dangerous.
crap, just read her stuff now. unbelievable. i’m not going to respond because that kind of empty-headed foolishness is not worth my valuable time.
don’t change, unless it’s in the way of becoming even more offensive to religion.
…one thing i noted, someone referred to you using the term “youthful rebellion”. told you you were looking younger lately!
I knew there was a reason I enjoyed your site so much! Not sure if my comments will get posted over there, so I’m adding them here, as well:
“Let’s see, people: Jesus fired up a party with the “best” wine. Paul told Timothy to take a little wine for what ailed him. And I’ve never read anything more sensual than the Song of Solomon. Here’s what is REALLY scary: Christians (especially Christian leaders & pastors) who are so uptight about and afraid of their own bodies and so busy laying the law down for others that they end up, under cover of darkness, abusing little boys and sneaking around with prostitutes. Are you people serious?!?! Reminds me a little too much of the Pharisees keeping people out of heaven, burdening them with man-made laws they themselves can’t even obey. And you know what Jesus said to the Pharisees: Whoa.”
Cheers!
Whoa indeed!
Jeremy Z,
Interesting that you quoted James 5:16…”Confess your faults to one another…”
When you confess, you are becoming spiritually naked. You are removing the hypocrisy and layers of image from yourself to show what is underneath.
“…that ye may be healed.”
Healing requires nakedness. When I go to the doctor, he can’t discern much if I refuse to remove my clothing. And, if there is a problem, it’s not just my own, personal physician who sees me naked. There are lab technicians, radiologists, specialists who may need to see way more of me than I am comfortable with them seeing. That doesn’t mean I am immodest. It means that I am willing to let them see reality so that they can help me to get healthy.
By the way, are you comfortable with assigning Ingrid the position of gatekeeper of information for yourself? Many of us regular readers of nakedpastor’s blog have attempted to open up a dialogue with readers of Slice and have been prevented from doing so. Are you really comfortable making pronouncements about doctrine, people, and life based on only a portion of the information. What ever happened to the scriptural admonition to “Test all things.” If you aren’t allowed access to the lab, things are pretty tough to test.
Thanks for your prayers. I am praying for you as well–especially that you will find true freedom that can be found only in our Lord and Savior.
Well, my comment on SoL didn’t make the cut I suppose, so I sent it directly to David and post it here instead:
I find the wholesale condemnation of David and his blog “nakedpastor” to be what is sad about some forms of Christianity in the world today. Sure, for those who are looking for stones to throw, David’s “provocative” (and I use this word loosely since he readily defines what he means and it has nothing to do with nudity) use of the word “naked” and his use of art, particularly that featuring semi-nude or nude portriats, provide much ammunition. However, a close look at what he actually writes shows any reader with even a modicum of openess that David is a man who is earnestly trying to follow Jesus and has a heart for the body of Christ, the church.
The throwing around of words like “pervert” and “hedonist” saddens me greatly, as does the statements that David has “skeletons in his closet” that may lead to his being “defrocked.” This kind of talk is much further away from the mind of Christ than anything I have ever read or seen on David’s blog.
I am disheartened by what has been written in both the original post and in most of the comments that have followed. I think Christ is as well.
I lived near Milwaukee for 9 years. It is the homeland of WVCY, the flagship radio/TV station run by Ingrid and her dad (and others). Milwaukee was not an easy place to be. Those holding the microphone and running the companion blog (Slice) have a big influence in their home town.
May God continue to pour His grace into your life and ministry. Thanks for this blog.
I try to avoid sites like SoL blog. I always get angry. I try to be sad for a while, but it does not always come naturally to me. This time I responded. It probably won’t make the cut as well…..:-)
Here’s my response……….
Luk 18:11 The people who responded to this (SoL)post stood and prayed thus with themselves, “God, We thank Thee, that we are not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this naked pastor guy.”
Joh 8:7 So when they continued asking him, He lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at the naked pastor. And they replied, “Why, thank You, we have lots of stones.”
Thanks for your blog, I will read it always. How much does a beer cost where you live? I live in South Africa and have to know how much Rand I have to convert to buy you some. Thanks again.
Will said: The throwing around of words like “pervert” and “hedonist” saddens me greatly, as does the statements that David has “skeletons in his closet” that may lead to his being “defrocked.” This kind of talk is much further away from the mind of Christ than anything I have ever read or seen on David’s blog.
I say: I agree. I heard it said once that the subject that a person preaches about the most is the one that they have the most problems with. For instance, I knew a preacher that preached against nothing but sex, pornography, and extra-marital affairs — not too many years later he was caught by his wife in his church office “sisterly kissing” his secretary — whom he later married. And it was because he wasn’t “naked” with those to whom he was accountable.
If one is so fixated on certain things, one must ask themselves where their mind is — in the gutter or on Christ. If the word “naked” conjures vividly immoral pictures — then the problem lies not with the word, for words can/will change, but the problem lies within carnal minds and hearts that are not transformed.
Since others are proof-texting there is one I personally try to read often that I may learn and grow and be warned:
“Two men went up to the Temple to pray, one a Pharisee, the other a tax man. The Pharisee posed and prayed like this: ‘Oh, God, I thank you that I am not like other people - robbers, crooks, adulterers, or, heaven forbid, like this tax man. I fast twice a week and tithe on all my income.’ “Meanwhile the tax man, slumped in the shadows, his face in his hands, not daring to look up, said, ‘God, give mercy. Forgive me, a sinner.’” Jesus commented, “This tax man, not the other, went home made right with God. If you walk around with your nose in the air, you’re going to end up flat on your face, but if you’re content to be simply yourself, you will become more than yourself.” Luke 18:10 - 14
It’s great to see you love-bombed in the comments here
My, you stirred up a hornet’s nest, didn’t you, NP? There were a few thoughtful responses on their site, but unfortunately, most were pretty hateful.
I think some of the posts on here can be somewhat judgmental in their own way, regarding the more traditional church and “megachurches”. However, when topics like that come up, I think they are meant to provoke discussion and are not written with malice.
When people disagree with you on this blog, you do not block their comments or bash them. I feel this is a place for real (dare I say “naked”?) discussion.
Here’s the issue in a nutshell and I’ll frame it by rephrasing Will’s sincere comment above:
As one who is also a pastor like David I find the near wholesale approval of his conduct and his blog “nakedpastor” to be what is sad about some forms of Christianity in the world today. I’m not so sure we could all be Christians. So then which of us are? How would we know except Jesus says, “By their fruit you wll know them.”
Sure, for those who are looking for stones to throw, David’s “provocative” (and I use this word loosely since he readily defines what he means and it has nothing to do with nudity) use of the word “naked” and his use of art, particularly that featuring semi-nude or nude portriats, provide much ammunition.
So as one who is to be able to say, like the Apostle Paul in his pastoral role, imitate me as I imitate Christ, would this be a wise use of his Christian freedom? Will these kinds of things make his younger, and/or weaker brothers and sisters stumble. Will it move them on to holiness and being like Christ?
That said, a close look at what he actually writes shows any reader with even a modicum of openess that David is a man who is earnestly trying to follow a Jesus as he perceives Him and has a heart for the body of Christ, the church as he sees it. But the questions would be: Is David actually following the real Jesus? Does he care about the genuine Body of Christ? And again, how are we to know?
From my point of view, and from my reading Scripture, at best, what I mostly see here is an apostate form of Christianity. One that has a form of godliness but denies the power thereof with its carnal approach to the historic orthodox Christian faith. It has little, to nothing, to do with the Jesus I know. So, we are left with: Which of us is really in the Christian faith?
fun·da·men·tal·ism /ˌfʌndəˈmɛntlˌɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - (sometimes initial capital letter) a movement in American Protestantism that arose in the early part of the 20th century in reaction to modernism and that stresses the infallibility of the Bible not only in matters of faith and morals but also as a literal historical record, holding as essential to Christian faith belief in such doctrines as the creation of the world, the virgin birth, physical resurrection, atonement by the sacrificial death of Christ, and the Second Coming.
What in the world is wrong with that? By that definition, I am proud to be labeled a “fundamentalist.” Thank God for people like Ingrid who are blessed with the ability to expose apostasy. Her quote about leadership is one of the most pithy things that I’ve heard regarding this mess: “…people get the kind of leadership they want. Sensuality and carnal appetites are the order of the day. Thus, we have carnal and sensual pastors. Enough said.”
You have a right to choose, rightly or wrongly, how you worship. But before you choose how to worship, please examine Scripture to see if you’re lining up with what God wants. Coarse language, sexual imagery, and silly talk has no place in the Christian life. Ephesians 5:3 says, “But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.”
Ken Silva,
There are only ever two “people” who can divine the salvation of a particular person:
God and that individual….seeing as you are not one of them, you might want to be careful about the declarations that you make about other people.
There will be many people in Heaven that some thought wouldn’t make the cut. There will be many who won’t be there that everybody thought would be there.
Let’s let God sort out those who belong to Him.
David,
I remember the time we got to visit you and your church a number of years ago when I was touring with Brother Andrew (Smith). I loved your church, felt greatly welcomed and embraced by everyone there and later at the BBQ at your house. The worship and the teaching was excellent, and I look forward to someday returning to the East Coast again to spend time with you guys.
SOL is a haven for nutcases, slanderers, and liars (I know “liars” is a strong word, but sometimes you just have to speak the truth in love, right?). Your reply over there was gracious and Christ-like, which places you in a completely different category than them.
Jesus’ words to you today are: “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.” (Matthew 5:11-12)
The hard thing is that these people on SOL honestly love Jesus and in their heart of hearts are really trying to follow Him. They have no idea how their fellowshipping/commenting sounds like a hate-fest; rather they think they are righteous and standing up for the truth. I know this because I remember being there. I also remember how it felt—not good. It was a small, small, fear-filled, scary place and I was striving to be close to Jesus and know Him, yet always felt like I was missing His Peace. These people are THERE. They are caught up in legalism and judging and don’t even realize it at all!
Somewhere, somehow, within each one, though, there is a part of them—a spark— that DOES know, I believe, and will always strive toward health, light, and love. I pray that this small spark fans into flames and that they realize that there is another way to be a Christian that doesn’t involve hate, throwing stones, judging other, but that involves love, building up, and edifying and encouraging others.
Reading those posts has been enlightening, sobering, amazing, and scary. Let’s pray for these people!
Wow, I hadn’t seen this http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=593 where she addresses “A Word to the clotheless pastor and his followers”……
Wow.. if we spent more time on our knees for the body of Christ and less time with our fingers in each other’s faces worried about what our brother and sister are doing.. and took the time to look at our own lives and our own hearts.. THEN we just might be getting it. Good grief.. why do you care so much what goes on in the life of someone you don’t even know???
Wow, Ken, i was going to ask you if np and friends{of which i consider myself} were the scattered, broken and sick or the fat and strong? but you cleared that up for me in your second coment.
np has every thing to do with the Jesus i know. So i guess we are left with which of us is really in the Christian Faith. I follow Jesus. np is just a fellow follower along the path and it is refreshing to walk along with someone who is not pretending to be someone he isn’t, so i don’t have to pretend to be someone i’m not. i think Jesus loves me as i am right now. sins and all He’ll make me perfect when He takes me to Heaven.
I consider myself to be a part of the lost, scattered,broken and sick, that He is in the process of seeking, bringing back, binding and strengthening. Carefull not to be too fat and strong. He tells us to leave the judging to Him. Thankfully.
robby mac,
“I know ‘liars’ is a strong word, but sometimes you just have to speak the truth in love, right?”
Now you’re getting it there robby. No middle ground. No place to hide. No need for phony platitudes. The men who are leading this emerging rebellion against the Bible are liars.
deb,
This is the root of the whole problem: “…has every thing to do with the Jesus i know.” We don’t get a “Jesus I know.” We only get the Christ Jesus, LORD God Almighty in human flesh, of the Bible.
You say: “He tells us to leave the judging to Him.” No, He doesn’t - e.g. see Matthew 7:20; John 7:24. We don’t get to define how we’d like the Christian faith to be.
And here’s where we’re at: Either people like Ingrid and myself are “slanderers, and liars” roght now or Naked Pastor and robby mac are.
We’re not talking about your usual whipping-boys in the emerging church this time, Ken. We’re talking about David the Naked Pastor. I know him personally, and I know that he’s a solid Christian with “good theology”. So, when people publish accounts that cause their “amen chorus” to conclude that Pastor David is a pedophile, a pervert, and possibly not even a Christian — what else could it be called but slander and lies?
Pretty straight-forward, I’d say. Those who are lying and slandering at SOL are liars and slanderers.
But Jesus loves them and calls them to repent of their wickedness, and He will freely forgive them and cleanse them of the sin of bearing false witness against their brothers (and sisters).
We can always hope and pray.
robby mac,
1) This is not my “whip.” And 2) while you are entitled to your opinion David is a big boy and stepped into the James 3:1 judgement when he assumed the role of pastor-teacher. He’s a big boy and David knew what he was doing when he decided to be titilating by becoming “naked” and exposing himself.
His statements, conduct and associations line right up with the semi-pelagian new evangelical partyline and the emerging church. What I’m saying here is that the Lord has had it with their lies about, and attacks upon, the Biblical doctrines of grace and a Sword is leaving His mouth. Toss around the slander word all you want but it falls on deaf ears because it is simply your impression and those who like you are on the wrong side of this issue.
Now I’m jealous.
Ken,
Nakedpastor IS a big boy, isn’t he? He is steeling himself (like Christ) to take every hit you and your soldiers can deliver without dodging, without screaming, and with dignity. How can you even insinuate that he, in any way is “[attacking] the Biblical doctrines of grace”? If anything, David’s words champion God’s grace! Reread the comments over at Slice–can you locate even one gracious comment? The lack of love is abominable!!
So, “The Lord has had it with their lies?” Wow. You speak for God himself? Wow. Can you tell us what He thinks of legalism, Phariseeism, judgmentalism? Ummmm…LOGJAM.
You seem so confident you are on the “right” side. Maybe there aren’t sides at all. Maybe we’re all going to end up at the eternal family reunion. Wouldn’t you be shocked?
I’ll bet if your mansion ends up next to Nakedpastor’s you’ll be lobbying God for stricter noise ordinance laws (because our celebration will probably be too loud for you!) Problem for you, though; no one loves a good party more than God Himself! :^)
“but it falls on deaf ears”….well isn’t that the truth!
Deaf ears that quote James 3:1, but ignore James 3:9-10. Deaf ears that scorn the prodigal son, who is welcomed by the Father, but take up the chorus line of his older brother. Deaf ears that are so busy straining out gnats that they swallow camels. Deaf ears that are so busy finding the speck in others’ eyes that they can’t see the plank in their own. Deaf ears that clean the outside of the cup, but are filled with filth. Deaf ears that are whitewashed tombs. Deaf ears that pass by The Samaritan because they don’t want to be defiled by having to actually touch him
Those ears are really busy not listening to anything. Maybe we can all pitch in and get some hearing aids for those deaf ears.
nakedpastor….I am sorry for venting in your comments page.
David, if you wanted a hornet’s nest….. Is this the most commented on post on your blog? Wow! And now you’re “titillating” to boot!
Perhaps I should have gone for a name more controversial than “deconstructed” - maybe I’ll change it to “stripped” just for the heck of it.
Thanks Ken. I can appreciate where you are coming from with this comment. As to your question: “Which of us is really in the Christian faith?” That’s a good one, and when we bring all Christians together from all around the world, what an interesting discussion that would be! You seem to be an intelligent, well-read and studied man. You know as well as I the vast variety of Christian doctrine and practice out there. This isn’t to say that we are to throw in the towel and just be who we are without question and without endeavoring to know the truth and live accordingly. Maybe a better question to start with would be with, “Which of us is really in Christ?” That would lead to a more kindly dialogue. Don’t you think?
I pray for us all that by the help of the Spirit we would come to grasp the full dimensions of God’s love for us in Christ.
blessings brother.
david
I read the comments over there under Slice’s latest slice of garbage and mis-representation they blogged on - that is the most judgemental group of people I have seen in some time - and they should be ashamed of at least 1/2 of the condemning things they said…man that’s just sick. I am doing a blog on their comments - that was absolutely sickening to read - they mine as well condemned you - would of been easier!
. . . in light of this little dust-up, you might find this interesting.
Just for my 2 cents…Thank you to the likes of Marko, NP, Brian, Scot, Mike and all the others who have been vunerable and shared life with me through their blogs. Thank you for the transperancy; it helps me to be a better husband, father, youth pastor and friend. I’m honored to say I know them. Even if it is only in the blogosphere.
Mike thanks for the link - ironic piece of info to say the least (lol). Also someone wrote a very good critique of the comments on SOL and David’s comments - I would personally like to thank that person for saying what needs to be said - and I think that same person did an awesome job in critiquing the post!