In But Not Of
I am inside the system. I am a part of the machine. I am one of the so-called leaders of this institution. Most of the time I’m not happy about it. I continuously struggle with it and even against it. This is what makes my blog what it is: it is written by a pastor who critiques the very system he’s a willing but reluctant participant in. I sometimes wonder what would become of my blog if I left the ministry as a full-time paid clergy. Would it mean anything anymore? I think one of the unique aspects of nakedpastor is that I’m still within the system. I often wonder how bought I am by the system. How embroiled am I in it? How vested is my interest? I constantly feel like I’m compromising myself. I sometimes feel guilt about selling out to the system. Then, I remember that it isn’t about the system but the people I pastor who are also within it, the friends I work among. Like marriage I guess… I love Lisa, this person in front of me. If that is true, I don’t even have to consider the institution of marriage. It means nothing. I am in but not of. I always have to remind myself of this, and there is beauty in it.
The fine art photograph (cropped) is the creation of my friend Howard Nowlan.
Have a great long weekend. See you soon!
change, church, community, grace, institution, love, marriage, naked pastor, transformation Share This
I share the same sentiment.
That tension (in but not of) is what will fuel healthy and authentic life/ministry. May God give you the grace to walk the razor wire between “in” and “not of”. That impossible tightrope act is the stuff of parable; it is the shape of following Jesus.
I often have to ‘jump through the same hoop’ as others to achieve something (i.e. travel), but my aspirations for doing so and actions once there will vary immensely. The same is no doubt true concerning our faith and fellowship.
Also just to say the picture link is again incorrect.
Please use the link here (on my name) to access my website.
Thanks,
Howard Nowlan.
A general theme in your blog is your desire to not be a church leader. If you think you would be happier in a different role, then maybe it would be the best thing. I’m not saying that you aren’t doing a great job. I don’t know that from personal experience but, based on the admirers you have, it seems you’re greatly respected. Although, have you ever considered what kind of message are you sending with your self-description of being “trapped”? Ultimately, you have to make the decision to stay in the ministry or get out for yourself. Probably, no matter what you decide, it will translate into being the best decision for everyone. In my experience, if a person gets to a place of contentment, they are better equipped to bring joy into the lives of others because they don’t need to focus so much attention inwardly.
Incidentally, I was initially attracted to your blog because you were in the ministry and able to critique it. I suspect that you will continue with the status quo. However, if you changed your role, I’d still be interested in what you had to say - maybe more so, as I think the freedom you would undoubtedly experience would change your perspective, possibly in ways you can’t anticipate. On the other hand, maybe your struggle is what keeps my attention and if you were at peace, I’d be bored.
I will say a prayer for you.
It’s the ‘trapped’ that I think most of us identify with.
My desire to meet you one day grows with each honest thought.
Incidentally, I became a professional surveyor when I left vocational ministry (or when it left me) - but I have to fight harder for those relationships you mentioned. However, I still feel very much a part of that system. Right now, I still want to.
Well you are obviously not alone. I wonder if part of the struggle is because we (the church) is in a sort of in-between time as it relates to the form and function of the church?
Have you ever considered that God has you where you are for a reason? That maybe your reluctance could be preventing you from enjoying what you should be enjoying? That maybe you could be more effective in your roles (leading, challenging ways of thinking, etc.) if you embraced your position?
Then again, Jeremiah didn’t have too much fun…or maybe he did sometimes?
I don’t know, man. Seems like you have a group of people in the machine who love you (and whom you love). It can get pretty damned lonely here on the outside.
Sometimes I wonder if I didn’t just take the easy way out. My voice wasn’t always welcome, but at least there was someone around to hear it. : )
dorsey. i hear ya!
I have spent some tome thinking about your situation. When you say you are part of the system perpetuating the problem. Is that literal, meaning in your pastorate you allow these things to happen. Or metaohorical, where you feel responsible that it is happening elsewhere. Because God only expects us to do as we can with what he has given us. So, If you are not allowing the bad behavior in you area of responsibility, then you are not part of the problem but a good example to others. Changing eveyone else to follow your lead is not something that you can control. Got some thoughts on that at my post here http://myfaithdefined.blogspot.com/2007/08/its-my-path.html. If you read the post this will make sense, if not….. It is not really in our control always. The only way that I can see to get people to the next step is to kind of treat it like grade levels in school. Teach from the beggining, when they think they are ready to move on, then they go to the next group. If they have advanced beyond their abiblty, it will quickly show. But remember, you can only do what God has set for you, not everything you want to do.
I think if we step out of good/bad right/wrong language what you are describing can have a different feel. In my work sometimes when working with a restriction in a joint the body will respond to a push into the joint rather than pulling. Sometimes there is a deep holding pattern that just get tighter when I keep pulling on it. It just keeps pulling back. In those cases I will reverse and push into the joint and the body will slowly begin to move and shift deep in the tissue.
I get the sense that some part of you needs something to push against something for reference. This comes between the lines when you state, “I sometimes wonder what would become of my blog if I left the ministry as a full-time paid clergy.” I might be making this up in my own mind, but it feels familiar to me.
I can relate. I worked within a system that slowly became more and more difficult. I don’t believe that I could have left any sooner. There was a valuable process that I still reference. It was only when I came to discover that the system no longer held meaning for me. The system didn’t change, I did.
I appreciate what you do NP - I hope we all can do the same - go back and love the same people we criticize.
we left ‘the church’ 3 years ago, and i must say, although it has been freeing, it’s very very lonely often. sometimes i wished i could go back, but we passed the point of no return…
I think I understand your comparison of “the religious institution” and “the institution of marriage.” I think your point is that your position within the institution stems from love for someONE and not from love of someTHING (position, title, or vision). I was in a similar situation where I stayed at a church for several months after I felt I no longer belonged out of sheer love for the people in that system.
Yet, I can’t really wrap my head completely around your analogy…
Do you wake up every day frustrated that you are someone who is married?
Do you wake up every day frustrated that you are inside the religious system?
When you see problems with the institution of marriage do you feel compelled to point them out to others and to warn others of the dangers inherent in not dealing with those problems?
When you see problems with “the church” do you feel compelled to point them out to others and to warn others of the dangers inherent in not dealing with those problems?
Are you embarrassed to admit that you are married?
Are you embarrassed to admit that you are a pastor?
Why did you step into the insitution of marriage?
Why did you step into the insitution of the church?
Does a commitment to an institution compare to a commitment to Lisa?
Does your commitment to Christ mean an equal level of commitment to a church?
These questions are rhetorical and not put out there to elicit any response other than your thought process should you desire to consider them. In my mind, you seem to love Lisa wholeheartedly and seem content not to worry about the characteristics of the institution of marriage. You seem to love God wholeheartedly and seem content not to worry about the particular characteristics of the institution of the body of Christ. You seem to love your flock wholeheartedly, but seem quite discontent with the institution of the church.
You are in a unique situation. (And you will still be unique even if you leave it.) I don’t envy you. When you write about these things, I remember the pain of leaving the church I was part of. I miss the weekly corporate fellowship with loved ones who still worship, fellowship, and minister there. But the ones I love the most are still part of my life even though I am no longer part of the institution.
Love endures. Institutions don’t.
You are in my prayers. May God bless each step you take (whether forward, backward, or sideways) and shine His light upon your path.
ruth… i wonder about the finding contentment thing. it is often in the discontent we learn the most and have the most to share and it is also the time when fellow strugglers feel the most empathised with. i like np’s discontent, not because i want him to be unhappy, but because i want a true friend who is able to admit that shit smells bad.
if you can find peace in a place of discontentment i think you may have sussed a large piece of this life thing. wasn’t gethsemane a bit like that?
the tv is full of contented pastors telling everyone how to better themselves and this always strikes me as shallow, american dream nonsense at best, and downright fraud at worst!
to be unhappy because the institution you are in makes it harder for real relationship to thrive is surely a good thing… the institution would be alot worse if it weren’t for the np’s of this world struggling to be truthful in it.
‘down with nice clothes and surface church etiquette! and up with nakedness!’ that’s what i say!
ruth… i wonder about the finding contentment thing. it is often in the discontent we learn the most and have the most to share and it is also the time when fellow strugglers feel the most empathised with. i like np’s discontent, not because i want him to be unhappy, but because i want a true friend who is able to admit that shit smells bad.
if you can find peace in a place of discontentment i think you may have sussed a large piece of this life thing. wasn’t gethsemane a bit like that?
the tv is full of contented pastors telling everyone how to better themselves and this always strikes me as shallow, american dream nonsense at best, and downright fraud at worst!
to be unhappy because the institution you are in makes it harder for real relationship to thrive is surely a good thing… the institution would be alot worse if it weren’t for the np’s of this world struggling to be truthful in it.
‘down with nice clothes and surface church etiquette! and up with nakedness!’ that’s what i say!
jonbirch - I’m sorry if I offended you or anyone else in this group. My intention was only to offer a different perspective. I will continue to seek Christlikeness elsewhere and wish you the best with your struggle. Over and out.
I think it’s important to realize that in some measure, we are all still currently ‘inside the machine’ whether we attend a particular ‘church’ or not. We are all currently part of a world marked by futility and the consequences of sin, which work through every aspect of our present lives here - as we can clearly see in our more honest moments with ourselves and each other. So often, as is the case in Tolkien’s first installment, the ‘fellowship’ seems broken, and even our dearest friend seems distant, but it is often when the shards strike at our bare feet that the needed reprieve is close by.
On that very night He was to be delivered up, Jesus longed to share a very special meal with those who had become His friends; something which would be repeated often after the grave was empty. In this, our time of walking, we hopefully can learn as we share something of that same fellowship amidst all our actions and experiences, for that balm to us derives from the Lord who has promised to be with us in it all.
sorry ruth… wasn’t trying to offend. i was just offering another perspective i thought. really hope i haven’t pushed you away. you certainly didn’t offend me in any way… honestly. i hope you read this.
Jon,
I love verbal jousting more than the next guy, and can take a very heavy hit without being offended. I have learned the hard way that many are not like me, and have driven people that I wanted to talk to away. So I get to use more words to say the same thing, but the landing is softer.
By the way, I think Ruth’s advice is also the best advice that can be given. Once deciding God’s will for you. Following it will bring the peace that I have, knowing I am in his will. But I still feel peace as I fight to help correct the wrongs that I have found the church committed to people. Finding peace is finding God’s will. Discontent sent by God, is still peaceful. Because you know the discontent is righteous. Have fun figuring out what I just said, because I don’t think I know what I just said.
Dittos to your feelings.
hi nate, i understand what you just said, cos that was my point too… i think.
ps. i’ve re read what i said… bit baffled as to the offence caused… it certainly doesn’t read as rude to me… just a different view. maybe because for some reason it uploaded twice it seemed harsh… the debate on this site is one of its really strong points in my view. if i get a caution from np for my behaviour i’ll certainly think again, but i take the pitch of his posts as a guide and i pitch my responses accordingly.
I understand Ruth’s thoughts, because many people would get the impression that you are quite unhappy in the pastor role. But maybe it’s just the church establishment rather than the actual role of pastor that has you feeling the discontentment. It reminds me of my previous career. I loved the work and the people, but I detested the office politics, to the point where I eventually got out of that field. If I could have stayed in the field with out compromising myself, that would have been different. Can you stay in the role of pastor without compromising yourself?
This is tough, how to be in the institution/ organization but not of it. I suppose without “the machine” pastors would be authentic but ineffective, but with it they can have more effect but struggle for authenticity.
NP, Thanks for the great discussion, I am proud that you are willing to throw your ideas and “ponderings” out for others. There are many leaders within the system that are “bewildered” with how the church is. In 1999 I was pastoring a church I had started that had grown from a house/part time to what became a full time pastoring position with over 200 people, when I heard God ask me, “how much longer will you prostitute me?” I knew immediately what he meant. Will we “sell him out” for a few coins, a position, a dream, a ministry? Is it that the system we find ourselves in now selling him out? Do we as a church love God for what He can do for us, or do we love him just because he is God? I know when I started ministering I ministered because I as so in love with him, for who he was, and not what he could do, but somewhere along the way the system began to change me to ministering for what he could do for me or my church… Is it that we have done something “so wrong for so long that wrong seems right” (not my words but I agree with it). I now pastor a small home group of who many are “ex pastors & leaders within the church” that was “bewildered” by the system. I believe with all my heart that God is shaking the church to wake her up. Many ministers feel like you do in this blog, they just don’t know what to do with it. Never fear for God will lead you through it.
I know this. That we will know what systems work and what systems don’t if they create true disciples rather than attenders. The Bible is plain on what a “true disciple” is. John 13:35 says, “By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” When we begin to see the church system that creates disciples that truly love one another, like God loves us, then you will know. I have seen many things that people in the church were enamored with. Great singing, preaching, prophecy, signs and wonders, but give me the one who loves “God with all his heart” and “loves his brother as himself” and quick to truly forgive those who despitefully uses them”, and I am enamored with that.
So thank God that he has you “unsettled” and “questioning” if you are a part of the system? For it is the beginning of change “for the good” for the church.
‘but give me the one who loves “God with all his heart” and “loves his brother as himself” and quick to truly forgive those who despitefully uses them”, and I am enamored with that.’
yes. yes. yes!
Dave - you know as well as I do that the system cannot be changed from the outside in but only from the inside!!!! That’s why we hang in the system and the people that believe in us as their pastors make us feel that we are still hanging on for something!!!
NP said:
“I sometimes feel guilt about selling out to the system. Then, I remember that it isn’t about the system but the people I pastor who are also within it, the friends I work among.”
And then commenters said:
“But maybe it’s just the church establishment rather than the actual role of pastor that has you feeling the discontentment.”
“Do you wake up every day frustrated that you are inside the religious system?”
“Have you ever considered that God has you where you are for a reason? That maybe your reluctance could be preventing you from enjoying what you should be enjoying? That maybe you could be more effective in your roles (leading, challenging ways of thinking, etc.) if you embraced your position?”
The more I read blogs the more I’m convinced that they are a horrible way to communicate. People infer all kinds of things on the text. Sometimes they infer that they are saying it better than you intended it to be said. Or they infer that even though you said what you did you could not have meant that. Then they spend the next 20 comments debating why you can’t or shouldn’t feel that way.
Imagine if Emily Dickinson had a blog…Or Edgar Allen Poe…Or Henry David Thoreau…Or etc… Sometimes it’s just better to stare at the masterpiece without saying a word; otherwise it just may lose it’s beauty trying to describe it or make sense of it.
Oh well I’m have to scream into an echo chamber. Ciest la vie.
I am fascinated by so many that have had or are having a similar experience as I. I was in paid ministry for nearly 18 years. A light came on a year ago to some deep seated problems with the current way we “do church.” I was compelled to share the concerns with the leadership of my church. They went silent toward me, I lost my voice and influence and became someone not to be trusted. Gently I tried to communicate and found that, for what ever reason, I could not be understood. Then I relaized that I was perpetuating some of the things I had come to believe were the weaknesses of the church. My responsibilities required it. As a matter of conscience and to avoid a future relational train wreck I “retired.”
Several comments refer to loneliness. My experience inside the machine has been lonely. I take responsibility for most of it, but the current role of the pastor tends toward this. My wife and I have not been “out” for long. The freedom is thrilling, but we long for a community of Jesus that shares His prioroties.
Chris,
I guess you’re going to discontinue your blog? (Wait–that’s maybe going beyond the intent of your words.)
Here’s a link to one person’s view of how the defintion of “blog” is changing:
http://sbinfocanada.about.com/cs/blogarticles/f/blogdef.htm
I agree with her thought about the dynamic nature of blogs. That’s not to take away from the beauty of your comment. It’s just my comment. I’m thankful that (so far) NP has encouraged the virtual exchange of ideas. It’s refreshing!
And, of course, when I just want to soak in the beauty of words I can read Dickinson, Thoreau, Palmer, or St. Vincent Millay. (The curse of a curious mind is that even when I just want to soak it in–there’s still a part of me trying to “make sense of it.” I don’t do well with the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policies.)
N.P. -
There’s only one way to find out how addicted you are to the system. Step out of it. True faith & true calling endure regardless.
I’m 1 1/2 months off the “professional clergy” hamster wheel.
Still alive. Still breathing.
ttm said
“I guess you’re going to discontinue your blog? (Wait–that’s maybe going beyond the intent of your words.)”
No I’m not discontinuing my blog. I’ve actually not updated it for about two weeks (excluding one post stating I’m not posting).
My comment about shouting into an echo chamber was a reference to my own blogging experience.