Comments on: Lip Service or Heart Surgery?

by: societyvs

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:39:37 +0000

“Besides, when fruit happens, it is because of nature. Who created nature? God did. So all of that fruit is his, not ours” (Nate)

True, but if in a parable you are the ‘tree’ and ‘fruit’ is the a sign of what we do - then it stands to reason the tree must do something in order for the fruit to appear? But since Jesus does not mean we are literally trees then I am guessing Jesus is asking us to live lives that mean something (ie: love one another, share, be peaceful, have mercy, etc). God laid down the teachings but we use them to grow - isn’t that a ‘participative’ relationship - like all the other one’s we have that are fruitful? There is nothing wrong with being ‘who you are’ and who God created you to be - and we need as humans to be ‘accepted’ (especially youth). I see the ‘good’ in the action and no reason to deny it whatsoever.

It’s alright if you disagree with me but the nature argument you put down is based on what exactly? Reality or a parable?

by: Robert Easter

Thu, 29 Nov 2007 04:30:33 +0000

Before I write any more, let me say I know this is not a deeply studied remark, though I have been involved in two Willow-Creek “clones.” From this workstation it seems that W-C is an unnatural marriage. If I’m correct, Hybels is a Southern Baptist. The two main points there (though they would say it is full-immersion and Unconditional Security) are the ideas of a Christian’s identity being based on one defining moment, and maintaining a public profile to validate that identity. He adopted a church “profile” from Calvary Chapel after seeing phenomenal growth in that movement since the 60’s. Calvary Chapel’s strength was not in the fact that they were upbeat in their worship, but that they taught a life transformed from the inside out by the Blood and the Spirit, being “washed in the water of the Word.” “Healthy sheep reproduce,” as Pastor Chuck says. Chuck’s approach is to make sure his flock is “the best fed, best loved sheep in the county,” while the Hybels copycat is busy rearranging the seating plan and the music program to make his flock look more marketable to the “seekers” whom he expects to come wandering in at 10:30 sharp on a Sunday.

As Chuck’s congregation is led into the fullness of the Spirit and continues feeding on the Word, fellowship, breaking of bread, etc., like Acts 2:42 describes, they are going to grow, they are going to be witnesses, and stuff is going to happen, mega or not.

If Bill had paid more attention to Chuck’s gospel than his seating plan would we be seeing this problem?

by: Nate Peres

Thu, 29 Nov 2007 04:28:30 +0000

WOOOOHOOOOO!!! NP Right on the Mark. Besides, when fruit happens, it is because of nature. Who created nature? God did. So all of that fruit is his, not ours. That is why I vehemenently disagree with “Societyvs” on this one. Why do us moronic humans always have to think it is something we did?

Society vs sid: “I have to disagree - if not for the sake of those involved alone - for sanity. There is nothing wrong with being proud of what you have done and accomplished - that’s being honest about it. It gives all involved a sense of self esteem and meaning with the responsibility they have assumed (and task they have completed). Doing something good for others is something to be celebrated - and continued on - not to be overlooked. “

by: fishon

Thu, 29 Nov 2007 00:05:09 +0000

I don’t know, I just read a few minutes ago, before I read your post NP, Matthew 5:16, “In the same way, let your light shine fefore men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.”

It seems to me that with Jesus telling us to do “good deeds,” that leads to others praising our Father in heaven, we can have an appreciation that we are doing God’s will. However, I do believe that humility is the denominator that allows us to know we did a “good deed,” and God is pleased with it. What keeps me humble with my good deeds is this: They are NEVER about me–they are always about HIM getting praise. For that seems to be the point of Matt. 5:16, praise to the Father in heaven.

You wrote: “God isn’t impressed with our deeds.” You may be right. But I believe He sometimes is “pleased” with our deeds.
fishon