Sharing Space
Yesterday I brought up a subject that caused quite a stir in our community. But first, I spoke for a while about how we are often being prepared something necessary and good in the midst of our adversaries and adversity. God is not flustered by adversity. Neither need we be. The bible assumes we will have adversaries and adversity. It is part of life. It is how we live in the midst of this that the bible addresses. God doesn’t see adversity as a malevolent alien to our life, but a part of our life. God prepares a table for us in the midst of it, not once it is over.
After I spoke on the issue of adversity for a while, I informed the community that the idea has been tentatively raised that the church that split off from us might be interested in renting our building as their meeting place. I don’t think I’m speaking out of school because the issue is now public. There are no secrets. I opened up the floor for discussion and there was lots said and emotions expressed. I loved it… not because we are anywhere near a decision or anything like that. I loved it because these people feel free to speak their minds, no matter how shocking or disturbing or unprocessed it might be. The sign of a healthy community is not having it all together, but being able to speak freely.
I came to the conclusion, almost as soon as people started to share their concerns, fears and questions, that the conclusion isn’t going to be the most important thing, but the process. This will be good to go through all these tangled notions and emotions and pull our forgiveness to a deeper place and our wisdom to a richer expression love. I don’t know how it is going to turn out. I think forgiveness and love can be expressed either way. And right now I don’t care. All I know is that this community will be better for even thinking about it. And for that I’m grateful.
authenticity, church, church split, forgiveness, honesty, love, naked pastor Share This
Good for you.
Hi David. I really really like your blog. I’m a lay pastor in Hawaii. maybe you can relate - I’m a realtor “trapped in a pastor’s body.” We were thinking of setting up a website with nakedpastor and found yours in the process. you have great insights! I thought was being original with that idea but you had it a long time ago I see.
the little cartoons you make are great too.
question: your site feed link isn’t working. I would like to get the feed of your blog but the link is a 404. Can you send me the feed link or RSS link?
Thanks!
Tony Kawaguchi, from Hawaii.
a process indeed…. and yes a good one. I’m glad we are right where we are, there’s a reason… Can’t wait to see the depth and the fruit that come from it all. I’m still processing. *take us deeper God!!*
I hope this stays ‘a good thing’. I have seen Christians hit the roof when change is mentioned. Even small changes like the one you mentioned on your post. We forget sometimes that the church is a hospital and not a hotel. We get comfortable and we don’t want anything to cramp our style. I want Jesus. I’m tired of religion. The churches I’ve been to as of late have had a lot of religion and not so much Jesus. I sound like I am poor mouthing - not my intent. I really do like your positive attitude and I pray that this continues to be a blessing for your community. - Jennifer
Wow. What an interesting situation. Wish I could have been present to hear that discussion, or the ongoing discussions. Keep us posted, okay?
Absolutely Dave.
Sarah
All the best and wisdom, peace to your congregation, and to the other congregation - peace.
Sas x
Hmm… I wonder whether it would be an easy thing for “the other one” to make such request, if they do decide to do so.
Perhaps it would be a good start towards reconciliation. Not physically, but emotionally, spiritually and such.
What use is forgiveness if there is no reconciliation?
What use is forgiveness if the offense is still remembered?
*don’t know the real condition of the Church you’re in, I’m sorry if I guessed too much.*
Hey David
I have just started visiting your blog and do not know anything of your history but it seems to me that your church has a fantastic opportunity to bless & love those who separated from you.
I really like your understanding of community and your reflection on the process in which you guys are involved.
the point of forgiveness is that the offense is ALWAYS remembered. forgive and forget is simply alzeihmers, it’s NOT true biblical forgiveness. god doesn’t “forget” our sins. rather he chooses not to remember them in a way which counts against us. we forgive the slap even while still feeling our cheek burn with the sting. forgiveness can be a one way street. it can be offered and given freely, even when it is not asked for. reconciliation however is definitely a two-way street, which surely expects, even demands, much contrition, repentance, humility and supplication from the offending party. forgiveness can often happen without repentance from the offender; reconciliation can never happen without it i think.
it would be ridiculous to require a rape victim to be reconciled with her rapist, though she may well forgive him. in EXCEPTIONAL cases they may be reconciled, but this is FAR from the ‘norm’ or a requirement.
[…] From Sharing Space […]
The process creates the result. God has a result in mind, and puts us throught the process. I call it “going through the fire.” Why, because whatever process God puts us through to prepare us, it is normally not pleasant.
Thanks I really needed to be reminded of this piece “God is not flustered by adversity. Neither need we be. The bible assumes we will have adversaries and adversity. It is part of life. It is how we live in the midst of this that the bible addresses. God doesn’t see adversity as a malevolent alien to our life, but a part of our life. God prepares a table for us in the midst of it, not once it is over.”
i agree shane. totally.
a beautiful idea, dave.
True biblical forgiveness? Rather interesting when you declare that.
I guess you’re ok with the fact that every time you look into the eyes of those you’ve hurt and has forgiven you, and still see your offense there?
Perhaps what you said is true, but for now, I can’t see how “And I will not remember your sins” is the same as “And I will not remember your sins in a way that counts against you.”
Concerning the example you put forth, are you assuming a case where both are strangers?
Please do remember that reconciliation comes with a “re-”. It assumes a previous relationship.
I do not want to put extra burden on people, by telling them how forgiveness SHOULD be done, but I don’t think someone has forgiven me when they say they have, but would not have me in their midst because I remind them of the offense; though it has been forgiven.
And notice that I wrote “…the offense is still remembered.” instead of “…the incident is still remembered,” if you understand what I mean.