Love Will Win the Day
Community, as I have said many times, cannot be based on agreement. If you were to visit the community I’m a part of you would find a wide diversity of opinion, ideas and theologies. I don’t fully agree with any of them. I don’t even agree with mine at the best of times. I encourage diversity of ideas because this is what already resides within our brains. And I believe this deserves expression. It is our freedom, our right and our privilege. So we see expressions that some might call “New Age”, “Prosperity”, “Philosophical”, “Liberal”, “Evangelical”, “Pentecostalist”, “Fundamentalist”, “Conservative”, “Reformed”, “Socialist”, and on and on I could go. The wide diversity makes a wonderful mix, and I love it. And that is the key: love.
For me, to love this small community means to love the world in all its diversity. Love is what makes community. The dividing walls between people and people between us and God have been broken down in a loving gesture of good will. There are no walls. The walls are only the illusions built by our divided minds. I believe the local church should be a manifestation of the reality of unity. Therefore this local community must, in a sense, be a microcosmic reflection of the human race undivided and unified. Of course this can’t mean agreement. Of course not. It means love. This is what makes community rich and transformative.
Which is why this blog intends to manifest the unified reality and not the divisive one. I feel no urgency to reach agreement ideologically or theologically or any other way. I do feel an urgency for personal transformation that lives above illusion and in love and that encourages and blesses community. So, when it comes down to it, no matter how strongly we might disagree, love will win the day and recognize our unity.
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We are united in the fact that we agree to disagree, but it’s ok that we disagree because the fact that we disagree in love makes us united? I may have gotten that wrong, but I think I understand the underlying principle.
So if I say that your name is ‘Glenn’, and you say that it is ‘David’, but you don’t take it any farther because it’s not important who’s right or wrong, there is unity and freedom in letting people speak and believe as they want??
Within “community” that can work as long as there is nothing at stake, like life and limb… but in a church there is something at stake.
There is something at stake.
The Church isn’t just bird watching (or shouldn’t be). This is actually a matter of life and death! If one feels that everyone is going to be saved no matter what they think or believe, than I could understand that point of view. But that’s certainly not the point of view of the writers of the New Testament. They also believed that the gospel message was a matter of life and death.
I say this in a spirit of love, even if you disagree.
Thanks np!
- Steve
Wow! This comes down, I think, to grace. The grace to accept one another even when we differ. And to work out - together - what the non-negotiables are. Its messy and it’s painful and it certainly ain’t easy.
Thanks for sharing this.
Steve,
AMEN.
fishon
Great point David about diversity and unity. I agree 100% - because I want to be accepted theologically by you (lol). I see this attitude of acceptance and I also see the attitude of acceptance but with limits…and I wonder which one makes God happy? The one that makes me happy is the one closest to ‘God loved us while we were yet sinners’. I think your onto something David.
“but you don’t take it any farther because it’s not important who’s right or wrong, there is unity and freedom in letting people speak and believe as they want??” (Steve)
I kind of see what you’re saying here Steve - we want to help people that may hold views that are hazardous to their health (ie: loyalty to a gang or to God). As for beliefs - well this is where this all gets tough to handle. I know that I would not be accepted in most churches in the world (nevermind Canada) or allowed to teach because I do not hold to certain articles of faith.
However, I treat people in a fair manner, manage all my relationships and atone for my wrongs against others, care about people (and the poor), want to respect and build community, study the scriptures and contexts of the scriptures, etc. One could say my beliefs cause my actions…what is really ironic is I don’t believe in the trinity, nor most atonement theories as factual altogether…and yet I still manage to ‘love my neighbor’. I think I would be pegged as believing wrongly by most churches - is this what you mean by being ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ or is it about doing ‘right’ and ‘wrong’?
I like David’s view - and unity in diversity is great! Love is also great and is the great communicator. If we desire to see change - then we also need to desire to love that person to the point of acceptance, respect, and equality. We all struggle with that kind of patience and love - we want quick fixes - but that’s not reality either. In the end, love always wins out - it is the value that can change things.
societyvs,
Unity is great! There’s just one problem. It will never happen.
People that live right next door to each other, can’t stand one another. Families living under the same roof have trouble getting along… let alone nations.
When we look back at the history of this fallen world we see nothing but warfare interrupted by a few minor periods of… getting ready for warfare.
We are sinners and we don’t want unity. We might want unity if the other guy will go along with me! That’s the kind of unity this creature called human wants.
I had a conversation with a woman that told me we should (as nations) be more peaceful. She told me of a civilization near Greece in anciet times, that was matriarchial and they were very peacful and didn’t believe in fighting or killing. I asked her what became of this great civilization. She told me they were wiped out. So much for being peaceful. A civilization that is unable or unwilling to defend itself is no good to anybody.
Love does win out in the end. But it is Christ’s love for us, and that love alone, that has won the victory, on the cross. Without His love and forgiveness we are sunk.
Thanks.
- Steve
Oh, if only we WOULD just watch the birds! And the lilies!
Actually…I do. I love to bird watch, and I love flora as well.
But my main task, as a Christian, is to speak of Him. Nobody said this stuff was going to be easy.
Oh, if only we WOULD just watch the birds! And the lilies!
—–You ever watch an Eagle in an Osprey nest?
fishon
Ok, David, I understand your point.
I will admit to being human.
It’s not the disagreeing, but the ability to continue to give respect even when it happens.
But to allow what one perceives as error without even testing it causes more damage than at least exploring the possibility of it being error. And being able to admit error is not easy either.
Just ignoring problems doesn’t make them disappear.
If it did, God wouldn’t be spending time on us.
I never said to ignore problems or to not test ideas. In fact, the opposite is true. It’s funny how when we talk about peace and love people jump to the hippy conclusion that we are talking about teletubbies or something. It’s serious business and hard work, messy with chaos. But that’s the work of love. It is crucifixed. I agree Roland.
I just wanted to share a scripture that reminds me Jesus didn’t leave us alone in trying to discover the “truth” John 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth”. In John 17:17 “Sanctify them in the truth, thy word is truth.”
It may be naive of me but I believe the the prayers of Jesus will be answered so when He prayed that, “they may all be one; even as thou Father, art in me and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”, I believe this will happen. How it possibly can, I don’t know. But that is the miracle of who God is. He takes the impossible and makes it possible. I have wondered if it will only be in heaven this could happen. That moment when all of us will say, “OOOOHHH, that’s how it is.” We will all see where we erred and will be happy to be corrected. We will know evoquivically what the truth is. I hope we don’t have to wait until then.
Great post — I believe we are called to Unity not Uniformity - to paraphrase Richard Rohr.
Richard Mullin
good word richard
Richard, I assume the “we” you speak of is the Christian church. I agree that total uniformity and conformity is not what Jesus was suggesting but doesn’t there have to be a level of uniformity in our beliefs. He said that we should be one, “even as thou Father, art in me and I in thee, that they also may be in us,”. Jesus didn’t do anything He didn’t see the Father doing. Meaning He was one with God in actions and thoughts. I know it’s a scary thing but on some level wasn’t He saying that we are to be that way?
I’m not criticizing your statement. I’m really asking. You too,np.
David,
Thanks for the clarification. I get accused of being the ‘hippy’ myself too often. I will try to remember that there are more people that know the truth than just think they know it.
My apologies.
Jo said earlier that it was about grace. “The grace to accept one another even when we differ. And to work out - together - what the non-negotiables are. Its messy and it’s painful and it certainly ain’t easy.” That’s what I’m trying to find out. Are there any non-negotionables worked out yet.
np, you wrote, “I do feel an urgency for personal transformation that lives above illusion and in love and that encourages and blesses community.” I’m trying to understand what that means. Do you mean the illusion of unity that comes from a coerced uniformity? or a forced conformity? When one is in a community where one feels if they don’t conform to every jot and tittle, acceptance and love will be removed? I suspect that is what you mean. I agree that that is not the reality of true unity. But unity by definition is oneness. I don’t see love and unity being the same. I think I can love someone, very much, but still not be in unity with them. I desire to be in unity with them, of course, and I think there is something wonderful in a relationship where two people work to see the other’s point of view, to really listen to each other. That is love. But there is not guarantee they will ever be reconciled on the issue. After that I believe they can continue to love each other but depending the importance or how one view personally impacts the other, they have to put limitations on their relationship.
I meant to say they MAY have to put limitations on their relationship.
Walls…anything that seperates us from God is sin. It doesn’t matter what the reason for the wall. Not praying is a wall, not loving everyone is a wall, etc. The only unity that will ever be perfect is when our minds are stayed on Him. In that, we have His mind on every other wall, and He gives the wisdom to remove it. As you said…LOVE tears down walls!
Our church this month is continuing to tear down strongholds (poverty, drugs, abuse, and much more) in a community close to the church. Last year we did a children’s puppet ministry, barbcue, free clothes and haircuts and more in their neighnorhood.This year they asked us if we could help them…and we said yes. Sanding and priming the playgorund, painting the equipment, mulching the playground, murals in the pool house, and above all showing that we love them with the love of Christ! It’s a Sunday morning worship service in our very own Jerusalem!
Being the hands and feet of Jesus is the best way to grow unity no matter how big the wall seems!
Liked your post!
Hi, NP: I have perused your community articles and think we have similar ideals. FYI, I posted mine here: http://lpkalal.wordpress.com/2008/03/23/the-perfect-church-part-2-community/
I’d be interested on your take (and maybe on the other two thoughts on the perfect church which of course will never exist)
What courage to let people actually be themselves. Not trying to fix them, but let God do the work (if even work is needed). God doesn’t force us to things - He gives us the freedom to choose - why should we then force and coerce people? “Unless you behave right (the way i think is right) you are not accepted”. Is that love..
I’m one for unity instead of uniformity. But as someone said here, it’s true, it’s not easy to always feel unity even if you love someone. Or always easy to accept it if they do things different from you. I’m still figuring these things out. But at least, like love, it can be our goal, something we reach for. To concentrate on the 5% we have in common. It might even grow to be more once you learn to know each other better! We’ll never agree 100% with anyone, but maybe we can still have unity, if that is our priority? Unconditional acceptance of a person? Strive towards unity..
PS Steve (and np) I didn’t think Np’s post was about the theology of who is being saved, but more on church culture, or other more “minor” disagreements.. I might be wrong in my interpretation though, but that’s what I thought when I read this! I thought it’s more about are you allowed to colour your hair red and wear a mini skirt, different beliefs on “how you should live life”, rather than whether Jesus saved us etc. But ,that’s just my interpretation of the post.
I (’d) like to be in a community where I have the right to question, to think, to be unsure, to seek. I think it’s great if there’s room for discussion.
“I (’d) like to be in a community where I have the right to question, to think, to be unsure, to seek. I think it’s great if there’s room for discussion.” (Mimou)
Same. I’d like to be in a community that can accept me for who I am - and not just what I believe. It’s funny to me that the church cares about one believes and that all your ‘ducks have to be in a row’ - and then ostracize you if you cannot meet the standard…and these are the same people that say Jesus fulfilled Torah (Law) on their behalf - because they could not meet that standard…uhm…hypocrisy or hatefulness - one of the 2?
I like NP’s blog for this sole reason - we know we all believe various things about our faith in God - but shouldn’t that be cause to ‘come together’ then to ‘divide’? I personally could care less of someone came to church believing God was ‘the flying spaghetti monster’ - as long as they desired to be there - then shouldn’t they be welcome - and outside of judgement?
And Steve, unity is possible - all we need to do is want to do it. Nations do not seem this way but check the history books - pretty easy to spot why they all dislike one another. But on a smaller level - unity is very possible. I have a community of friends that all get along and believe different things - only similarity is cultural background and ideals within that. Do we all fight one another and dislike each other - no - we all care about one another. Which is actually quite funny - I am like one of the only people that crowd with a proclaimed Christian faith - so yeah - this is even possible amongst people not in the church.
societyvs,
the reason I didn’t answer you the other day was because I didn’t understand what you were asking. Having checked out your site, those of others and done some googling on varous topics, including the emerging movement, (i am not making any judgements on whether anyone associated with this blog is part of it.) I realized I am way out of my league here. I done alot of reading and still don’t understand most of it. Too many big words. ( I looked up tons in the dictionary). Most of the people on this blog are pastors and are very knowledgeable but all I know is the Bible. I’m afraid I’m a closet “Bibleman”.
I do love the Lord and His body, the church and pray for the day when we will all understand each other in our diversity and our unity. I tip my hat and bow out gracefully.
God Bless All, Shelley
“I do love the Lord and His body, the church and pray for the day when we will all understand each other in our diversity and our unity. I tip my hat and bow out gracefully” (Shelley)
No need to bow out Shelley - isn’t the point of all of this that ‘love will win out in community’? If we proclaim such ideals then I think it only fair we behave as such also - and I think as different as we all are - we are accepted and that’s the whole point. I, like you, also love the body of Christ and it’s role in society - we share that in common.
I would say though - your humble spirit is a great attribute and something of great value in these blog rooms. I personally appreciate your spirit and attitude in the conversation - don’t feel like what your saying is not of value - sometimes it helps show the most proud of us what is important.
societyvs, thank you for your kind words. It’s not all about humility though. Some statements I made in ignorance were down right embarrassing. Hence my wounded pride.
Thanks and God Bless, Shelley
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