Ulterior Motives

I speak and write frequently about being free of motive, or, in more vulgar terms, agenda, plan, vision, and goal. This is one of the most difficult concepts for us to understand, especially when we are in the people and religion business. So I want to share with you a quote:

The evangelicals I’ve felt the most fond of, the most comfortable around, and the most commonality with– regardless of political, social, or philosophical differences– were the ones who never tried to sell me on Jesus yet always seemed to be trying to live the life Jesus desired of them. The paradox of lifestyle evangelism is that while it might sound like a Christian’s loving, friendly actions are all driven by an ulterior motive, in only really clicks when they’re able to let go of that motive. The people who made the best case for Christianity were the ones who were genuinely unconcerned whether I ever decided to become a Christian or not.

This was written by Daniel Radosh, a self-proclaimed Jewish agnostic, in his entertaining and enlightening book, Rapture Ready: Adventures in the Parallel Universe of Christian Pop Culture. Some might inquire: “But Jesus told us to go into all the world and make disciples!” I think we need to understand what this means on a deeper level. Only those who either don’t care or who have a foundational grasp of and a thorough trust in the sovereignty of God, the universality of his love, grace and forgiveness, and the reconciliation of all things, can drop ulterior motives in living with and loving others.

SHOP

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52 Responses

  1. rebecca says:

    again, this sounds like the beginning of an attack probably, but here goes:

    then what happens to the people who never hear the gospel preached?

  2. nakedpastor says:

    I don’t see this as an attack Rebecca. This is a serious issue and we need to question. I think we are in an age where, like in Peter’s day, it is better to live the life and be prepared to have a discussion when we are questioned. That’s at least part of it.

  3. Enoch says:

    Time for this acquaintance and lurker to comment. It seems to me that the apparent paradox could simply be due to the irrelevance of Jesus, or of Jesus’ desire that we live such a life of friendly, loving action, to the practice itself.

    It would be natural, then, that the goal of persuading others to become Christians is detrimental (at worst, anyway) to living the loving Christian life.

    Of course, in buying this story, I am happy to ditch the understanding of the gospel that I learned in my Pentecostal/Baptist/Vineyard education. But maybe you don’t think that you have to do this?

  4. Brianmpei says:

    so what would you say to my friend who has challenged us to use fair-trade coffee instead of the cheaper but tasty stuff we normally use? Do we reject her agenda or would you say that it’s not an agenda/ulterior motive unless she ties her willingness to love us to our decision of where to buy our beans?

  5. nakedpastor says:

    gotta love a lurker. especially a philosophical one! and yes, i agree: we have a lot of “understanding” to ditch.

  6. Jeff says:

    Just found nakedpastor.com a few weeks ago. Love the site! Cartoons have really cracked me up, t-shirts are cool and thought-provoking, and the blogs are really insightful.

    Strongly agree with one aspect..live the life and love people like mad just as Jesus did. EVERYONE is our “neighbor”.

    Strongly DISagree with another aspect. If a Christian is unconcerned about a non believer becoming a Christian…something is amiss. Jesus wept over Jerusalem, Paul would have traded places with non believing Jews (if it were possible), etc. And how does a non believer become a believer? Through the Gospel. That is the power (Rom 1:16). We don’t see the apostles saying “o well, God is sovereign so let’s just love people”. No, they risked their lives to preach the Gospel.

    In fact, how can you really love someone and not care about their eternal destiny? This is a contradiction.

    I agree with the mission from your own church’s website…

    “Effectively obeying Christ’s commission to evangelize the world through making disciples that worship God, share the gospel in word and deed, equip other believers, and serve with the next generation to plant like-minded churches in Canada and other nations.”

    Keep the good stuff coming! Once again, Love the site!

    Grace and Peace,
    Jeff

  7. Tit for Tat says:

    Rebecca
    “then what happens to the people who never hear the gospel preached?”

    I dont mean to offend you, but if you really believe God is Loving, do you honestly think that if someone hasnt heard the Gospel that God wouldnt take care of them. Like really how logical is that?

  8. sarah says:

    “Only those who either don’t care or who have a foundational grasp of and a thorough trust in the sovereignty of God, the universality of his love, grace and forgiveness, and the reconciliation of all things, can drop ulterior motives in living with and loving others.”

    – Yes.

  9. SocietyVs says:

    I really like what Radosh has to say – and I have to admit – he is onto something about the ulterior motives and dropping them.

    I am not sure we need to be that concerned about the version of salvation we see in churches these days – this evangelization and confession thing. I figure if we can live our beliefs and get into the brief genuine conversation with people concerning issues of faith – we excel in what we truly want – people being effected by our value system.

    I find ‘in your face’ evangelism kind of ‘rude’ to be honest – not all the time – but sometimes it’s just plain rude. I am not looking for confrontation concerning biblical issues – and sometimes this is the approach of the evangelizer – even the use of fear to bring the potential convert in. Some of these things are rude to me. Maybe it’s just me – but what kept me in this faith was love – not fear or slick talking.

    I don’t evangelize at all anymore – at least not in that manner. I never deny my love for this faith (for God) – but I don’t feel the need to show this in speech as much I see the need for it in action.

  10. Deanna says:

    I totally agree with Jeff. There is something really wrong if a Christian is not absolutely broken hearted over those who have not accepted Christ as their Savior. Aside from our personal relationship with Jesus, this should be what we live for…reaching people for the gospel.

  11. fishon says:

    written by Daniel Radosh;;;;”The evangelicals I’ve felt the most fond of, the most comfortable around, and the most commonality with– regardless of political, social, or philosophical differences– were the ones who never tried to sell me on Jesus yet always seemed to be trying to live the life Jesus desired of them.”

    ———-Duh, what “…self-proclaimed Jewish agnostic… WON’T feel comfortable with a Christian who NEVER tried to sell me on Jesus”? What a most UNPROFOUND statement.

    He the guy STILL a self-proclaimed Jewish agnostic? If so, seems that living the lifestyle didn’t do the trick either.

    Of course he would be comfortable with that. I was alway very comfortable with my Muslim friend. He never tried to talk to me about being a Muslim.

    David said, I guess: ::drop ulterior motives in living with and loving others.

    ———Fantasy. You have an ‘ulterior motive’ in writing this blog.
    Jesus, himself gives Christians ulterior motives.
    Every sermon Peter and Paul preached were preached with an uterior motive.
    Paul’s letters are full of ulterior motives.

    “…or who have a foundational grasp of and a thorough trust in the sovereignty of God, the universality of his love, grace and forgiveness, and the reconciliation of all things, can drop ulterior motives in living with and loving others.”
    —————-Name just one, and Jesus doesn’t count–He is the sovereign God.
    fishon

  12. nakedpastor says:

    i just think when a non-Christian says to an evangelical, “Listen, if you want me to get saved, this is how I recommend you try it”, that you should probably listen to that. Instead we stick to our notion of what evangelism means. and as some evangelists continue to amuse, alienate, insult, coerce, and turn people off, we take this as persecution and rejection of the gospel.

    and the assumption seems to be: Radosh is outside the Grace. my suspicion is that WE may be.

    i really don’t think I have an ulterior (as in intentionally hidden) motive for this blog. i’m out there! aren’t i? and i really don’t care whether or not you agree with me. i really don’t. i’m writing what i think about and what i think may be true. and of course, if i think it’s possibly true then i think it might be wise and healthy to do it. but if you don’t i really have no control over that and don’t want to have that control.

  13. ttm says:

    The mark of true believers is love. Without a sincere, God-breathed love in us anything we do to “sell” Jesus is obviously nothing more than slick marketing. Why would nonbelievers pay (because every decision and association has a cost) to get their hands on a snake-oil they don’t see a need for or are fully capable of manufacturing themselves?

  14. bob says:

    This is probably very loosely related to the subject, but I find many Christians, when dialoguing with non believers such as myself, accuse us non believers as “taking it out of context” when we quote the bible.

    Mark 16:15 “And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.”

    What is the context? Just who is Jesus talking to? Why would any Christian think that this verse was meant for anyone other than who it was directly spoken to? Isn’t that what “context” means?

    Just a thought.
    lets_reason@yahoo.com

  15. fishon says:

    David,
    I would agree, when a non-believe would tell me, if he/she did, “Listen, if you want me to get saved, this is how I recommend you try it…” on an individual bases, by all means I would pay attention to what he/she said. Man, that is good fishing.

    However, if you mean or Radosh means that as a blanket statement, then I disagree. The Bible itself shows that is not THE primary means of spreading the Good News. Lifestyle evangelism, if you will, has its place, but it does not replace or supercede ‘FAITH COMES BY HEARING.’

    NP: : and the assumption seems to be: Radosh is outside the Grace. my suspicion is that WE may be.

    ———–I am not going to reread all the posts, but who in this blog has that assumption? ??????????? Outside of Grace!

    Oh, I agree. I don’t think you have a ‘hidden motive’ for this blog. But you still have motives such as hoping what you write [your opinions and beliefs] might be embraced by some folks. Your cartoons have a purpose; make people think with the hope, motive that they may see things from your perspective. Wether or not your ulterior motives are hidden or out front, you still have ulterior motives.

    Ulterior motives are not on their face bad or evil. Have you ever played a game with one of your children when they were little and LET them win? Why? I dare say there was an ‘ulterior motive’ behind it. Have you ever praised one of your children when they brought a drawing from school and you couldn’t tell what it was? Didn’t you tell your 4 yrs old that it was beautiful and very, very good when it was unrecognizable? I remember a first year band student play a trombone solo for the church. He told us what the song he was going to play. It was totally unrecognizable, even with him telling him what it was. How many folks do you think told him it was bad and they didn’t know what he was playing? How many folks didn’t clap when he finished?

    Ulterior motives–well, they can be wrapped in great love.
    fishon

  16. Fred says:

    “But Jesus told us to go into all the world and make disciples!”

    – not converts…

  17. zefi says:

    “But Jesus told us to go into all the world and make disciples!”

    – not converts…

    This is but a play on words. What is a disciple, what is a convert? No matter the context in which the word “convert” is used, there’s something that sticks out: change.

    And what did Jesus said about becoming His disciple?
    “If anyone does not , you cannot be my disciple.”

    And here you’re saying that to be a disciple, you don’t have to go through any conversion?

  18. zefi says:

    This is probably very loosely related to the subject, but I find many Christians, when dialoguing with non believers such as myself, accuse us non believers as “taking it out of context” when we quote the bible.

    Mark 16:15 “And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.”

    What is the context? Just who is Jesus talking to? Why would any Christian think that this verse was meant for anyone other than who it was directly spoken to? Isn’t that what “context” means?

    Just a thought.
    lets_reason@yahoo.com

    I agree with this, that there a context that binds the sentence, but there is also such thing as concept.

    Just because Christians quote the wrong part of the Bible to support their stand, doesn’t mean that their stand is incorrect.

    What I can say is that if you seriously think that Jesus has a good news, and only wants His twelve disciples to spread it, while want the rest to shut up, you have an interesting logic. Well, actually it’s beyond logic.

    I have a bone to pick with people who kept quoting “The Great Commandment” as the basis to support their pro-evangelism argument, but I have even more bones to pick with people who tell me that Jesus don’t care whether people after the era of His twelve disciples are getting His good news .

  19. zefi says:

    Ops. Something was left out because of html:

    And what did Jesus said about becoming His disciple?
    “If anyone does not , you cannot be my disciple.”

    supposed to read:
    And what did Jesus said about becoming His disciple?
    “If anyone does not [insert some changes in lifestyle or mentality here] , you cannot be my disciple.”

  20. Alden says:

    Very interesting post. While I have to agree with fishon’s comment that non-Christians typically like Christians who don’t preach to them, I also agree that the very obvious ulterior motive thing is why I’ve never been comfortable with what passes for evangelism these days, which makes Christianity seem like a multi-level marketing scheme. Even doing good works, the so-called “servant evangelism” seems to tweak the message by the sheer nature of its self-awareness. Try being a servant just to be a servant, with no evangelism strings attached… if that strikes you as wrong, then your servant evangelism may not be serving at all.

  21. steve martin says:

    Speak the Word (as often as possible). Pray for those to whom you spoken It to. Fret not whether the Lord grabs hold of their heart…or not. It is not for us to worry about (worrying is a sin anyway, why do you want to do that in the name of Jesus?)

    Putting pressure on people to “accept Jesus” is not the gospel anyway…it is the law. Any choice we make is a moot point. It is Christ that chooses who it is that will become His own.

  22. PK says:

    Steve,

    I thought Jesus loves all and accepts everyone who asks. I wasn’t aware he made the choice for us.

    Interesting view…

  23. bob says:

    Zefi, my comment is less about Mark 16:15 and more about Christians who use the context argument when it is in their favor.
    My girlfriend is a Christian and I am an atheist. If I ever use a particular verse to point out what I consider an absurd rule or law that some Christians subscribe to and others ignore, one of her first questions is…”What is the context”. Women ministers, baptism, tithing, speaking in tongues, so many Christians will question the context of a passage when it is a doctrine they do not subscribe to. What I find almost universally ignored is the context of Mark 16:15. Some will interject their own logic, such as…”Well, how else is the gospel to spread unless all believers follow Mark 16:15?” My response – “Not my problem. But if you are going to ignore context and use your personal judgment concerning this verse, please don’t chastise me for doing the same with other verses”.

  24. zefi says:

    Bob, my comment is also less about Mark 16:15 and more about the issue of context vs. concept.

    I don’t disagree that some Christian argue hypocritically. Double standard issue. Sometimes even I can’t stand them.

    But from the very little that you provided, I think it’s only an issue of interacting with a less savvy Christian, and that’s like complaining that a novice debater cannot debate like a pro. Like, DUH. 😛

  25. bob says:

    Less savvy? Interesting.
    I find “debate” to be useless and futile. What I find profitable and informing for both the believer and non believer is frank and honest dialogue. No tricks or wordplay or well practiced arguments. Honestly, I can recognize hypocrisy even in the savvy arguments of William Lane Craig, and I am an idiot.

  26. Laura says:

    What? no phone call today? 😉

  27. Steve Lancaster says:

    Sometimes I think we don’t understand Love. Then we think it’s just about the good stuff now, like God didn’t create us with the capacity to feel pain. God even gave us the capacity to die (whether we were created that way, or cursed with it).

    So Jesus gives us a picture of Love – it’s as much about pain as pleasure. Alongside the joy, it’s going the extra mile, even going to one’s death, even, for Heaven’s sake, harrowing Hell.

    So unless our preaching demonstrates we are prepared to harrow the very words we speak, it’s not the full picture of Love.

    How do you harrow your words?

    Surely you have them crucified, cut from under you, abused in their death throws, but then, purposefully, you journey them down past the negation of their meaning, till they mean the opposite of what reason might intend them to mean… Then God the Father, by His grace, will raise you up.

    “Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel unto every creature.” The ‘death’ of this word is not to go, trusting it will happen anyway. The harrowing of this word is to go and preach anything but the gospel. The grace of God is then to find that you’ve been preaching the gospel all along.

  28. Fred says:

    zefi,

    A convert is a chalk mark on a score card.

    A disciple is someone invited to walk along with.

  29. Kamsin says:

    I have a good friend who went to a Christian school here in Tokyo mainly populated by MKs and similar. She’s not a Christian, I guess her parents just wanted a safe English speaking school. She saw the way they plotted and schemed about how to win non-Christians and she felt they didn’t really care about the individual they just cared about getting a potential convert. She felt nobody was interested in her just whether they could save her soul, which she probably never felt needed saving. Maybe she just wanted to feel like someone noticed and cared about her for who she was.
    My Mum was also put off Christianity in her youth by over pushy Christians who knew how to preach the gospel but not how to show people they were loved and appreciated for who they are.
    Let’s come at this from a different angle. If confronted by a pushy salesperson given half a chance I will walk away, regardless of whether I want the thing or not. I dont’ want to feel coerced or manipulated. When I can’t escape sometimes I give in just to shut the person up and provided I can cancel whatever I just bought into later. Only if I’ve already decided I want something, and the salesperson doesn’t have any work to do except explain where to sign am I actually happy with my purchase.

  30. zefi says:

    Less savvy? Interesting.
    I find “debate” to be useless and futile. What I find profitable and informing for both the believer and non believer is frank and honest dialogue. No tricks or wordplay or well practiced arguments. Honestly, I can recognize hypocrisy even in the savvy arguments of William Lane Craig, and I am an idiot.

    Why you suddenly say debate is useless and futile as if it was my point? I used it as an example.

    And saying that even in savvy arguments there can be hypocrisy shows that you’re a person that reads words instead of trying to understand what someone is trying to say. I find having “a frank and honest dialogue” with such people unprofitable. Thanks, but no thanks.

    zefi,

    A convert is a chalk mark on a score card.

    A disciple is someone invited to walk along with.

    Another wordplay? Didn’t I already debunked this? Oh, never mind.

  31. Fred says:

    zefi, no you didn’t already debunk this.

    You know when a convert “crosses the line.” With a disciple it’s not so obvious.

    With a convert, you’re done; the decision is made. With a disciple you’re never done; the process is for life.

    With a convert you move on to the next one. With a disciple there’s continuing relationship.

    Is that wordplay? It seems to me there are significant nuances. They’re not synonyms.

  32. Fred says:

    Kamsin, well said. If the package is “that good” then it doesn’t necessarily have to be “sold.”

  33. Gabriel says:

    God loves us simply because we exist. We should love people also for that reason. Everything they “achieve” is an absolute bonus and God’s grace.

  34. Greg MacKinnon says:

    I have more pagan friends than Christian friends and while I would like to see all become Christian that is not the purpose of my friendships. It’s not so much that I am genuinely unconcerned whether they ever decided to become a Christian or not so much as my friendship does not hinge on that fact. One who for a while came to church with my wife and I asked “If I stop going to church are we still going to be friends?” We assured her we would be and that is how it has worked out. She is not a project she is a friend. Those who do become Christian create no confusion about convert or disciple as they are our friends and the relationship continues. God wants us in relationship with Him and others; thus “lifestyle evangelism” seems to me only logical. I do not try to argue people into the Kingdom and generally only speak of my faith when asked. I believe until I am asked I haven’t earned the right. I have also never forgotten that before I became Christian I could smell a christian soul snatcher a mile away and had enough experience with them to realize that their concern for me only extended as far as the open sesame (sinners) prayer.

  35. zefi says:

    Let me see…

    Jesus was recorded as saying:
    “Whoever does not carry the cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.”

    Ok, so now I’m a disciple, in the modern sense of the word. I learn. But wait, I learn, but I don’t do. I just want to learn from Jesus, but I don’t carry my cross and follow Him. You know, I’m just here to learn!

    I’m a disciple in the modern sense of the word, but to Jesus, I’m not. Yikes!

    Ok, don’t read too much into the verse and my example, lest you miss my point.

    What you’re saying is that (correct me if I’m wrong, cos I don’t want to be putting words into your mouth, like how you did me. ;)), in the modern usage of the word, I can be Jesus’ disciple and not be a Christian. But from how Jesus said it, there’s no such thing as being His disciple and not being a Christian. They’re not unrelated.

    I agree that being a disciple is a lifetime thingy, but you have to decide that you want to be a disciple before you become one, and that is what conversion is. Being a disciple of Jesus is not just being a student; it’s more than that.

    Is that wordplay? It seems to me there are significant nuances. They’re not synonyms.

    Oh, now now, don’t start putting words into my mouth. Who said anything about them being synonyms? I said that one cannot happen without the other. 😉

  36. TitforTat says:

    Zefi

    “But from how Jesus said it, there’s no such thing as being His disciple and not being a Christian. They’re not unrelated.”(Zefi)

    If you really want to get technical, Jesus makes no mention of being “Christian”, that title was originally used as a Slur(go figure)

  37. bob says:

    Zefi – “And saying that even in savvy arguments there can be hypocrisy shows that you’re a person that reads words instead of trying to understand what someone is trying to say.”

    If there is a mirror in your home, perhaps you could take a long look at it?

    PerhDo you understand that here in this blog thingy, all we have are words. If “meaning” is not understood, that is probably less the fault of the reader than the one doing the typing. That is why dialogue is necessary for understanding. It takes patience to make sure what you are saying is what I am hearing. That is how communication works, if it is going to work.

    But, I am guessing that is not your interest? I am guessing that you don’t really care if your point is understood as long as you get to state it?
    Just my impression.

  38. Fred says:

    zefi,

    You think a disciple is just “one who learns.” That wasn’t the case in the context of Jesus’ culture.

    I never said “in the modern sense of the word.” You did.

  39. Lawrence says:

    Got to love it… circles and words, they’re still circles and words going around and around.
    Jesus said of himself, ” I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” Matt. 15:24 While speaking to the Syrophoenician woman, who from the Cannite district were known as dogs to the Jews.
    The disciples of Jesus stayed for the most part within the area of Jerusalem, ministering to the Jews and there was little preaching into the outer world until Paul was commissioned by God to go to the gentiles, so it is important to know the context of the words spoken and to whom at the time. Even Peter was rebuked for some hypocrisy.
    When Paul went out he said, “our gospel did not come simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction.” 1 Thes. 1:5
    I’m not going to go into the other places he said similar.
    Where the power of God is demonstrated, there is always the result of conversion, but even Jesus rebuked the crowds for their following after the food, and when he spoke about the real deal many turned away.
    Didn’t Jesus simplify everything for us by asking that we love God first and foremost with all we have and to love our neighbour as ourself.
    So the question is, “would you treat another with words and actions that would really tick you off personaly?”

  40. zefi says:

    If you really want to get technical, Jesus makes no mention of being “Christian”, that title was originally used as a Slur(go figure)

    And Jesus makes no mention of being “God.” Go figure.

    But, I am guessing that is not your interest? I am guessing that you don’t really care if your point is understood as long as you get to state it?

    Depends. If I have the impression that the other person is totally capable of understanding what I’m saying, but intentionally do not, why should I be wasting my time. Cut it short, and that is what you accuse me of. Prolong it, and you’ll prolly accuse me of being defensive or stubborn.

    Yes, I don’t really care if my point is not understood for now as long I get to state it. If I proceed to try to push it down your throat, I don’t know what I’ll be accused of next. And it’s not just in blogs that all we have is words, it’s the same offline. And saying that when a message does not get across, most of the time it’s the fault of the messenger, I disagree. That is not what the theory of communication taught me.

    You think a disciple is just “one who learns.” That wasn’t the case in the context of Jesus’ culture.

    You didn’t quote me fully. Where’s the “modern sense of the word?” And what you just said is exactly what I’ve been trying to convey, thank you.

    I never said “in the modern sense of the word.” You did.

    Of course you didn’t. I’m sorry if I made it as if you said that. 🙂 So, how about the sentence that comes after that, am I correct in saying that that’s what you meant?

  41. bob says:

    zefi – “And it’s not just in blogs that all we have is words, it’s the same offline.”

    Eye contact, facial expression, verbal inflection, instant feedback???? Obviously it is not the same. Why would you say it was?

    zefi – “And saying that when a message does not get across, most of the time it’s the fault of the messenger, I disagree. That is not what the theory of communication taught me.”

    Fault was the wrong word for me to use, but if the messenger actually wants to be understood then it is up to him or her to modify their message as needed…if they want to be understood. I can’t modify my understanding unless or until I am informed that I misunderstood.

    Does any of this interest you at all?

  42. Fred says:

    zefi,

    Sorry, I actually responded before even reading your whole response. That’s the problem with being an impatient speed-reader.

    “I agree that being a disciple is a lifetime thingy, but you have to decide that you want to be a disciple before you become one, and that is what conversion is. Being a disciple of Jesus is not just being a student; it’s more than that.” (How do you do italics?)

    Yeah, there’s a decision. But I think that for a “convert” it’s a sales pitch with the goal of making the sale. With discipleship it’s an invitation to a relational process. With conversion relationship is a means to an end. With the invitation to discipleship relationship takes priority over the decision; if someone “turns down the invitation” relationship should continue.

    I think there is a definite difference, but thanks for forcing to think a little harder about it.

    😀

  43. Jonathan says:

    Great post David.

  44. zefi says:

    Eye contact, facial expression, verbal inflection, instant feedback???? Obviously it is not the same. Why would you say it was?

    Which most of the time makes communication harder. 😉 Especially the instant feedback!

    And why didn’t you accuse me of contradicting myself? First, I said something about depending on the other person, I might or might not just leave a conversation without explaining my points further. After that, I said that I don’t care about the other person understanding what I’m saying as long as I get to say it. 😉

    Yeah, there’s a decision. But I think that for a “convert” it’s a sales pitch with the goal of making the sale.

    I agree. It’s a pity what that word has become nowadays.

  45. zefi says:

    You do the italics by:

    <i>Text goes here</i>
    Text goes here

    Or if you want bold:

    <b>Text goes here</b>
    Text goes here

    These are HTML tags, and you can google them if you want to know more. Most blog’s comment section accepts them.

    If you’re going to experiment with them, have fun! 😉

  46. zefi says:

    Ops, I opened an italic tag and I didn’t close it.

    Ok, done. Sorry David for the extra, unnecessary posts! 😛

  47. Fred says:

    Hey, thanks zefi!

  48. Dave says:

    I’m a little late to the discussion but what a great post!

    Jesus did say to go and make disciples. He even showed us how to do it and caused a written record to be left for us.

    I don’t see Jesus personally using mass alter calls or sinner’s prayers. In fact, while he did preach to the masses, it doesn’t appear that he requested them to convert and become disciples. He personally invited the 12 to come. Also, I don’t see him warning or condemning those in the vicinity of those he invited for their failure to respond. He had lots of conversations and dinners that didn’t result in invitations to discipleship, too.

    And we wonder what we’re doing wrong.

  49. Warrior says:

    Great post, thanks for sharing!

  1. October 27, 2008

    […] I sometimes check out the naked pastor blog. He recently had a post that deals a bit with this. Check it out at https://nakedpastor.com/archives/2361. I will copy a quotation from it here: […]

  2. October 27, 2008

    […] DNA/Values update For those of you who were interested, the naked pastor has a follow up post on motives values and he names his source of inspiration as Daniel Radosh, a jewish agnostic who wrote “Rapture Ready: Adventures in the Parallel Universe of Christian Pop Culture” (Looks like I will be putting this on the wish list) The evangelicals I’ve felt the most fond of, the most comfortable around, and the most commonality with– regardless of political, social, or philosophical differences– were the ones who never tried to sell me on Jesus yet always seemed to be trying to live the life Jesus desired of them. The paradox of lifestyle evangelism is that while it might sound like a Christian’s loving, friendly actions are all driven by an ulterior motive, in only really clicks when they’re able to let go of that motive. The people who made the best case for Christianity were the ones who were genuinely unconcerned whether I ever decided to become a Christian or not. […]

  3. October 31, 2008

    […] Click here to see the source […]

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