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9 Responses

  1. steve martin says:

    We are all basically unbelievers at heart, and we basically are determined to stay that way.

    But He has other plans for us. He gives us faith and keeps that faith going against all odds.

    “Lord, I believe, help me in my unbelief.”

  2. barrenmind says:

    we didn’t choose God…
    He has chosen us.

  3. preacherlady says:

    Sometimes that’s a very healthy place to be. As we grow, we discover that what we were taught was God, isn’t and it becomes necessary(or not) to find a name for the creating, sustaining, maintaining force of the universe.

  4. Tiggy says:

    My Trinity:- The Creative Spirit – the Beloved – Me.

  5. a reluctant blogger says:

    Two things.

    First, I’m just trying to find another way to look at the cartoon, and so instead of the up/down relationship, what if this is just two people talking in the dark? One ‘comes out’ and makes a statement, although apologetically. And another voice (not necessarily a higher power, just another voice, let’s say in a more northerly direction) agrees. So, even in the dark, in complete mystery, in not knowing, we can find each other and communicate, and come to agreements. Although maybe the second voice is just a lame copy-cat…

    Second, and I *ahem* apologize because I’m attempting to rewrite the cartoon here, but:

    Voice 1: I’m sorry God, but I just don’t believe in you anymore.

    Voice 2: No problem, that wasn’t really what I asked of you anyway.

    In my own personal faith, I’m stretching more and more away from the ‘belief’ focus, and instead looking at behaviour — respect, compassion, love. Belief is not necessary to accomplish these three things. But it takes practice and sometimes courage and sometimes suffering. I’ve never liked the word sacrifice, I think that’s a terrible lesson within Christianity, but it’s in there too sometimes.

  6. matt says:

    I think the problem with that is that the Bible does say emphatically that belief is necessary.

  7. Tiggy says:

    I think the word in the Bible that we translate as ‘belief’ is actually closer to ‘trust’. It’s not the rational dogmatic belief of post-Enlightenment Modernism cos that wasn’t around then.

  8. a reluctant blogger says:

    Hey matt,

    Was the comment directed at me? (“I think the problem with that is that the Bible does say emphatically that belief is necessary.”) I think we all know the problems involved in assuming, so instead I will just presume I guess…

    And I don’t want to chirp too long on this because the discussion should be on d’s beautiful cartoon (small compliment to the elegant original message),

    but,

    the Bible says a lot of things emphatically,
    and says a lot of things are necessary,
    but it also gets contradictory
    and I personally can’t take it as an authority.

    Especially about what God wants of us.

    Tiggy’s comment is a great clarification, and the last thing I want to do here is get dogmas barking at each other. : – )

  9. Tiggy says:

    Haha, my Karma’s run over my Dogma!

    I tried to NOT believe in God once and found it impossible. I did this in order to try to understand more the mindset of an atheist friend who was depressed. Later when he met someone and got engaged he became more agnostic. I’ve seen a lot of young men on dating sites, claiming to be atheists and I think there ‘s a certain machismo which they attach to the idea. When you get talking to them, they usually turn out to be agnostic.

    I can’t rememer ever not believing in God, even though my parents weren’t in the slightest bit religious and it would only have put me off if they were. My ‘belief’ in God has always been intuitive, something I’ve known rather than decided upon intellectually. I’ve always experiened God’s immanence as part of myself as well as His transcendence through nature. That may sound arrogant, but I was a small child – I had no reason to be arrogant and I wasn’t precluding God’s immanence in anyone else, in fact the opposite if they could see it. And this was before I was a Christian because t hat wasn’t till I was 12, so there’s no way I’m ever going to believe that God is only present in Christians in an active way. Is someone going to say, okay he was active in me but I wasn’t saved? Well….(end sentence with the expletive of your choice). I don’t believe in Original Sin and I consider the doctrine to be a form of child abuse. Even in Augustine’s work it was a far more minor theme than people realise and the guy was wrong – he was gnostically f***ed up. What I needed saving from was my parents!

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