WARNING: look out for the tidal wave of gay theology!

"Bring More People" cartoon by nakedpastor David Hayward

“Bring More People” cartoon by nakedpastor David Hayward

I read this post last night: Churches warned: ‘Tidal wave of gay theology’ looming.

I laughed all the way through it. But there was a great amount of sadness as well. The level of fear, hatred and even violence is alarming. The conspiracy theories abound! Do not read the comments unless you can stomach stupid, vicious vitriol and even death wishes for gays.

This, from Christians.

The cartoon is inspired by the many valid concerns for the future of the church. It is losing members in heaps. The cure is right under its own nose!

The bible provides several illustrations of how the people of God protected itself against change. Let’s examine a few examples:

  1. The gospel stories are replete with examples of how Jesus challenged the theology of his day to include more people than it was willing to. That was his death knell.
  2. Just before Stephen was stoned he spoke about the decentralization of God’s presence and people. That was his death knell.
  3. The story of Paul is an example of how he challenged the theology of his day to include more people than it was willing to. That was his death knell.

Read the poignant words Vicky Beeching shares that express the pain of those who are excluded from the family they love and belong to:


I found this graphic pretty telling by The Barna Group, Are Christians More Like Jesus or the Pharisees?

The decentralization and the deconstruction of an exclusive Christianity is on the horizon. Some see this as a bad thing. Others see this as a good thing for the entire human race.

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27 Responses

  1. Jarred H says:

    The first paragraph of the article invokes Scott Lively as a source.

    That would be Scott Lively of The Pink Swastika fame.

    That would be the Scott Lively who agitated for draconian anti-gay legislation in Uganda.

    For more examples of the kind of “source” Scott Lively is, see here.

    I’m going to try finishing that article now, but the author has essentially torpedoed any credibility in the first paragraph by invoking the name of such a deceitful hatemonger.

  2. Jarred H says:

    Okay, finished it. So basically the whole thing is a promotion of Lively’s garbage while letting him do the “I’m such a martyr dance.”

    The infuriating thing (well one of them) that gets me is the number of people who will swallow this garbage. They’ll accept Lively’s claims of being “vilified” and “attacked” without taking a single moment to look at the heinous and hurtful things that he says and does.

  3. Cecilia Davidson says:

    I’ve mentioned that people in my parish have said things that make me afraid of coming out of the closet. I wouldn’t put it past them to think the homosexual steam roller is real.

  4. Leslie says:

    I tried to respond to your comment on WND article but it’s been removed by moderators. I guess they don’t appreciate being called out on their un-Christ-like actions.

  5. Teena says:

    I too replied to your comment on the WND article….and have been checking on it since….and as Leslie said, your comment has been removed….

  6. really? well there you go!

  7. Jarred H says:

    “All this gay stuff comes from WHORING heavy drugs and sex outside of marriage, when that happens people receive evil spirits.”

    The Flash, I suggest you go read some actual accounts of some actual LGBT people. (Here, you can start with this one: http://www.amazon.com/Torn-Rescuing-Gospel-Gays-vs–Christians-Debate-ebook/). Until then, quit spouting deceitful bullshit.

  8. Cecilia Davidson says:

    They won’t. They’re the type of troll to come from 4chan or reddit just to kick shit

  9. Jarred H says:

    I suspect you’re right. I just didn’t want that garbage to go unchallenged.

  10. Sean Buckley says:

    I think you’re both right Cecilia and Jarred. I was going to write a reply, to point out that my sexuality goes far beyond my genitals.
    But people who write tangents such as that, really are not willing to treat or view people in the same way they want people to view and treat themselves.

  11. Yup, I get the feeling ALL of that was copied and pasted from various sources

  12. buzz says:

    I’m going to start using your phrase “the decentralization and the deconstruction of an exclusive Christianity” instead of my “it’s time to start burning down the churches” as I think it will get a more productive response.

    (For any trolls who might be reading, I am a Christian who is appalled by what is being done in far too many churches in the name of our Lord against minorities of any kind and people who need comfort and help.)

  13. Caryn LeMur says:

    We have a beautiful Japanese Black Pine in our front yard, and it is dying. It breaks our heart. Yet, we have discussed how best to replace it this coming spring, how best to cut it down so that our neighbors are not damaged, and how best to avoid damage to an electrical junction box near it.

    I agree with Barna’s graphic – most church institutions are trying to defend their Pharisee-stance. Yet, I think that the Holy Spirit’s heart is broken, and that the Trinity is ‘discussing’ how best to replace that dying Pharisee-church structure with minimal collateral damage.

    The tree will be cut down as promised in Romans; and a new branch grafted in.

  14. Michael says:

    Do we preach a gospel that says that drunkenness is acceptable by God? Do we preach a gospel that says that sorcery is acceptable by God? Do we preach a gospel that says that greediness and theft is acceptable by God? Of course not. Why then would we preach a gospel that says that sexual immorality, including homosexual acts and unmarried sex, is acceptable by God?

    Jesus did not challenge theology. He challenged hypocrisy. He condemned Pharisees not because they believed a woman had committed adultery, but because they believed that she couldn’t and shouldn’t be forgiven.

    It’s important to note that the repentance and forgiveness that Jesus preached implied a turning away from sin. For the aforementioned woman, Jesus sent her away with “go and sin no more.” He didn’t say, “go and continue committing adultery because it’s not a sin and God loves you,” nor did he simply say, “go.” He acknowledged that she had sinned and forgave her with the mutual understanding that she would turn away from her sinful ways.

    So why do we preach a different gospel than Jesus did? Why do we tell people that their sins are not sins? Paul wrote for a reason that “if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!”

  15. Caryn LeMur says:

    Michael: First, you appear articulate and to have thought through some of this subject.

    So please allow me to ask a number of questions.

    Do we then preach a gospel of mercy to those that marry a divorced person and thus live in adultery, per the words of Jesus [Mark 10:11-12]? Every day they love each other, they live in adultery. This violates one of the 10 commandments ‘written by the finger of God’.

    What mercy do you offer to the man (or woman) that marries a divorced person? Shall the remarried abstain from sexual acts yet be allowed to marry? shall they repent, divorce, and live alone all their lives? Shall the church order them (if they visit or attend) to not become members and to sit far apart during the service? Shall the church welcome them only if they attend workshops that teach them of their sinful brokenness and their need to return to single-hood?

    Do we insist that the woman who has sex with a man must marry that man, even if date-raped? [Please read II Sam chapter 13 and see how Tamar understood this Law of Moses accurately]. How do you propose the church carry out this Law? What mercy will you give a couple that decides to not marry after a date-rape? [Deut 22:28]

    Do we insist that the bride be found a virgin, and if not, be assumed a whore and executed? How do you propose the church carry out this Law? [Deut 22:13-21] How do we handle a sin that can be ‘repented’, but not undone (she can never re-become a virgin)? What mercy do we show someone in our church that was not a virgin upon marriage – how do we (in modern times) “execute her” and “purge the evil from among us”?

    Please read James 2:1-13, and explain to me your understanding of ‘the sin of favoritism’.

    Seriously, let’s go down the logic path you propose – that gay marriage is sin that should be treated differently by the church than adultery, forced marriage to the man that date-rapes, and the assurance that each bride is a true virgin.

    You have me quite curious.

  16. Michael says:

    What did Jesus say on the matter?

    “Go and sin no more.”

    It is ironic that the ones who accuse Christians of acting like Pharisees act like them themselves. The Pharisees tried to trap Jesus all the time by asking him theological questions–for example, “in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” Isn’t that almost exactly how you worded your response?

    Jesus did not respond directly. He didn’t attempt to explain every little detail of the Law because He knew it didn’t matter. This woman’s sins were forgiven; why should she be punished for them? And why should she continue to live in sin?

    So, Jesus made it simple: the woman should be forgiven and not commit adultery any more. Divorced and remarried people should not divorce and remarry again. Unmarried couples who have had sex in the past should not have sex anymore until they are married. And those who have committed homosexual acts in the past should not commit homosexual acts in the future. If there is repentance and forgiveness, then there is no condemnation (1 John 1:9 and Romans 8:1).

  17. Oh dear. Michael! I really have nothing to say to that. Nothing at all. There is a greater freedom.

  18. Caryn LeMur says:

    Michael: Thank you for sharing your summation of the matter in ‘go and sin no more’. When Jesus spoke to the man by the pool, Jesus did indeed say that phrase.

    I have leaned towards that in the past, so I do hear you. It is a good summation of the Law of Moses.

    As I grew in Christ, I began to ‘look at the heart’, and to listen to the themes that were within a person’s words ‘for out of the abundance/overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks’.

    As I listened to heart-themes, I found the ‘sins’ most often were self-doubt, self-hatred, fear of others, a need to hold on to the external view of success/sinlessness, etc. When I worked in a prison, I did find heart-themes of criminal mentality and a willingness to abuse others.

    So now, I try to listen to the Holy Spirit, and speak to the person’s heart.

    I also came to believe that the Book of Galatians was the best summation of the relationship between the two covenants (the mentor of the Law and the freedom in Christ).

    So then, The statement of ‘sin no more’, is actually quite appropriate to the criminally-minded that still blur right from wrong, and literally pursue victims. Their heart needs the mentor of the Law.

    However, the vast majority of non-felons are simply not criminally-minded. They need something much deeper than ‘stop the external sins’. They need a believer that can hear the Holy Spirit’s advice and thought; that can share from their own past with vulnerability and nakedness; and that can speak/write to the heart-themes that keep the hearer from experiencing the freedom in Christ: love, joy, peace, longsuffering, goodness, patience, and self-control – the amazing freedom that mixes all those fruits of the Spirit into an incredible life.

    Thus, may I offer that you begin to listen to heart-themes, pray for insight into those heart-themes of the speaker, and then pray for wisdom to share the scriptures (verses and stories), as well as your own doubts/fears/weaknesses and comforts from the Holy Spirit . “We comfort others with the comfort God gave to us in our distress” – is the deepest counsel and encouragement you can give.

    Blessings on your journey; Caryn

  19. Jarred H says:

    Some of us are thankful for that greater freedom, David.

  20. Michael says:

    This “greater freedom” you preach was never preached by Jesus or the apostles in the Bible. According to Jesus and the apostles, salvation requires forgiveness, and forgiveness requires repentance. If you say that there is a “greater freedom” than this, then you are also saying that Jesus lied when He said that His way was the only way to salvation (John 14:6). How can you say that you believe in Jesus if you don’t believe what He taught? How can you say that you follow Jesus when you don’t follow what He taught? Wouldn’t that be a contradiction and a lie?

    Of course I am not saying that anyone who even slightly missteps is going to hell or must be otherwise punished. As I said before, there is no punishment, neither from God nor from the church, to those who have repented and been forgiven for their sins. But the freedoms mentioned in the Bible’s New Testament are freedoms from sin and the Mosaic Law, not freedom to sin. Jesus said that “everyone who does evil hates the light” (John 3:20). Paul wrote, “Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?” and, “The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God” (Romans 6:1-2 and Galatians 5:19–21).

    This is not some doctrine I made up or some outdated, legalistic ruleset created by power-hungry Christian leaders. These basic concepts are direct quotes from Jesus and His first followers. To deny them is to call Jesus a liar and to cause others to stumble away from the gospel Jesus actually preached, continuing in sin that leads to death. And as Jesus said in Matthew 18:6, “if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.”

  21. I dunno, it sounds quite legalistic, your stance.

  22. Michael says:

    If there is no sin that separates man from God, what did the sinless Jesus sacrifice himself for? Or if Jesus’ sacrifice now allows all to live in sin, why did Jesus, John the Baptist, and the early apostles all preach repentance? Perhaps they were just “legalistic” too. But if Christ Himself was a legalist, shouldn’t all of His followers be legalists too?

    It wouldn’t make logical or reasonable sense to call oneself a Buddhist if one doesn’t really believe in Buddha’s teachings. It wouldn’t make sense to call oneself a religious Jew if one doesn’t really believe that the Jewish God even exists. So how does it make sense for a follower of Christ, a Christian, to say that Christ’s teachings were false?

  23. Once again a case where Theopectate is needed.

  24. Caryn LeMur says:

    Michael: Not all believers will agree with you, or with others, on this blog. If you believe the Bible is the word of God (and living/powerful/sharper than a two-edged sword), then I think it is good to state your position, and then let the living word of God do its work. A rousing defense often loses its appeal.

    I hope you continue to hang around here, and learn about all the variants of Christianity, and other belief-systems that visit here. There are several lovely atheists that visit from time to time, and they too share their heart-felt beliefs here.

    May I offer that this is much more ‘Mars Hill’ (in the Book of Acts) that calls for discussion, listening, and articulation of your experience?

    Please tell us why, for you and your experience, that ‘Go and Sin No More’ is the key for your Christian life. Why it is your focus. Help us to learn about you and your belief system.