Julie McMahon: this is my story, this is my song

"Woman Blogger" cartoon by nakedpastor David Hayward

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(This is a guest post by Julie McMahon. We agreed it would be beneficial to have her story in one place. Here it is.)

Hi. My name is Julie McMahon, and I am a survivor! I am a survivor of domestic abuse and infidelity, shaming, silencing, bullying, and gas lighting. I want to share my story. Many of you may have already heard it, but split into pieces across the internet. I am very grateful for the many people who provided safe spaces for me to share my experiences over the last year. But now I feel the need to give a short synopsis of my story in one place. This is my personal version of events.

In 2008, I felt my marriage disintegrating. But, before this, two weeks after my third child was born my husband was approached to do his doctorate program at Princeton. I said, “What about us?” He said, “When Princeton calls….you go.” He moved to Princeton and we saw him a few times that year. When he was gone I noticed how much happier I was. I knew then that I was in a toxic relationship with a man who did not care for me or about my feelings. I felt he wanted to hit it big as an author, speaker, theologian, and become a celebrity of Emergent. I certainly was not going to be holding him back. It felt like he and our pastor were very driven to create a name for themselves. I was not on board with the aggressive travel schedule. It wasn’t healthy for our family system. Our marriage begin experiencing strain. His traveling and meeting with lots of other people lead me to become suspicious that he was having an affair. When this became a likelihood, I freaked out! I was told I was insecure and paranoid. I asked other Emergent leaders to help rescue our marriage. When it became obvious that this was hopeless, I freaked out even more. I was angry none of them intervened when he was traveling 250 days of the year and blogging about his Delta Silver Elite Status and the special VIP lounge at the airport. I was hurt. I was scared. It seemed to me that a decision was made to protect my husband’s reputation and that I was now a liability. His celebrity status seemed more important to him than I was. Suddenly, the leaders who were my friends no longer supported me, but only my husband! They treated me like a mental patient for having strong emotions about an affair. I’ll admit, I was emotional! I was losing everything. The last thing I would ever want for my children was for them to be hurt or experience divorce. Not in many cases, but in my case I considered it a form of child abuse! I held very deep convictions about that. I told myself to never have kids if I wasn’t willing to work through shit! I found a therapist that did Imago therapy… a last ditch effort plan for weekly therapy and a retreat. We met with her a couple times and she said we needed immediate in-depth counseling or we wouldn’t make it. My husband decided to go on a 47-day book tour instead. We fought and, yes, he physically hurt me. It was horrible and I can’t bear to think about that time. All of a sudden, I was branded as bat-shit crazy, unstable, hysterical, and out of control. They even tried to admit me to a psychiatric institution! When that didn’t work, I was brushed off to the sidelines. Meanwhile, he continued on with his life and ministry surrounded by what used to be “our” friends.

My hard life as a single mom began. I’m happy the courts ruled in my favor to have total custody of the children. Did this have to do with my husband being clinically diagnosed with NPD and the accounts of domestic violence? I’m glad I was able to parent our children. I’m a good mom. He moved on to the other woman I was suspicious about. I believe they were together while we were still legally married anyway. She is now his real wife after being a “spiritual wife”. I say “real wife” because during the days leading up to our divorce, my husband developed a theology that I felt entitled him to have an affair with another woman. He called his girlfriend his “sacramental wife” while I was his “real wife”. Our pastor told me what my husband and I have is “nothing more than words on a piece of paper and he has a spiritual wife now.” He said, “You may be the legal wife but she is the spiritual wife.” They are now literally married and working together to continue to promote his ministry. I’ve broken my back as all single moms do raising our children and staving off all the perpetual litigious assaults from my ex, all the while bearing the label “bat-shit crazy” with absolutely no one listening to my side of the story. I was in the backside of the desert all alone for years. Ironically, his efforts to break me had an opposite effect. With every blow I became stronger. God kept sending angels over and over again to keep me going and help me stay afloat. I say with full confidence that God is on my side. The Holy Spirit continues to lead me and my life as a mom and as a person. I would be crushed without my faith.

I was my husband’s biggest fan and so proud of him until I realized the movement and theology he was creating had everything to do with ego and man and nothing do with God. I sensed a darkness in our home. When things started heading south in the marriage I asked, “If this is of God and not man and ego, then where is the fruit?” I felt our marriage was nothing but rotten fruit. But he was in denial. This was no longer about glorifying God. My parents confronted my husband and my mother said that she sensed an evil had take over our once godly home. A friend who really is a prophet had a dream about my husband being in danger and she came to our home to tell him that his theology and his path he is headed down was going to put his family in danger. He shut her down. No one was going to dampen his rising star. When I raised concerns about my suspicions of my husband’s affair, when I fought hard to get him back, when I was expressing my rage, my loss of control, and my fear for my and my children’s future, I lost my credibility with all those I thought mattered. It seemed like overnight I was not just a nobody, but a nuisance and a “crazy.” I had become an emotionally unstable woman who was threatening to destroy what these Christian leaders had so carefully built… with my help! I’d become expendable. Even though our pastor and others claim they did listen to me, at some point they gave up. They gave lip service to cover themselves while doing nothing. My ex-husband had and still has their full support. He has continued growing his ministry, his writing, his speaking, and his reputation, all with the protection and support of his friends who used to be mine too. I quit going to church. What kind of community does this to people? I was going to write “innocent people like me”, but I won’t because I’ll admit I wasn’t entirely innocent. I accept responsibility for how distraught I was and how I behaved during that time. But I won’t accept responsibility for being shamed, silenced, bullied and gaslighted. So, for more than seven years, I have been silent because no one would listen because no one would care.

That’s what I thought until one day in September, 2014, David Hayward, the nakedpastor, wrote a post that critiqued my husband’s take on Mark Driscoll. In my opinion, the post itself was harmless. But my husband didn’t want Hayward’s critique to rest, so he commented on Hayward’s post in a manner that provoked a deep frustration within me. He always reacted with great hostility at the slightest internet criticism. He used to make me go after Ken Silva because it couldn’t look like him doing it. That is really what NPDs are so skilled at… creating proxies so they look blameless. Ken was threatened with a lawsuit for daring to speak critically or question my husband’s theology.

So this past fall, on David Hayward’s blog, I opened my mouth one last time. Would anyone hear me? I was angry that my ex could get away with so much for so long and that I wasn’t being heard! It wasn’t just the divorce years ago, but he ongoing cruelty of non-stop litigations against me as well as a whole list of other things. You can understand my frustration, can’t you? So I thought, why not give it just one more shot? Why not try to tell my side of the story just one more time? Who knows? So I did! I fully expected, as has consistently happened in the past, that my comments would be removed under pressure, so I held nothing back. I blurted as much of my story as I could in such little time. But, to my surprise, the comments remained. Not only that, but other people joined in so that not only was I able to tell more of my side of the story, but other people got to tell theirs! Even those who maligned me! You should read that post and the over 1,000 comments. It’s a lesson in a silenced person finally finding a safe space to share their experience and how this encourages others to do the same, while at the same time arousing the silencing tactics of those with influence who don’t want a different version of events to undermine the official narrative. The pressure for me to take my comments down was equal to the pressure on nakedpastor to take down the post and comments, or at least edit them out. This was nothing new to me, as you now know. This was not only normal for my experience, but expected. I really did think the same thing would eventually happen and that people would bow to the pressure from those in power or influence and they would take down the posts or comments. But, to my surprise, more people started sharing my story and allowing me to share it! It was a liberating experience to be able to share my story freely like that. I know others experienced the same liberation as they listened to mine and told theirs. The Holy Spirit took over on that thread and had her say.

Others started to spread my version of events. I realized it was too late and there was no going back. My story was out there! I felt hopeful, not that my marriage would be restored or that I would win a court case or that I could get my friends and influence back, but simply that I would be heard and that the balance of justice would tip just enough to make people see that maybe I was indeed the victim of shaming, silencing, bullying and gas lighting by my ex and his peers. I actually began to hope that the leaders who had abandoned me would come to the light and realize that they didn’t treat me as they should have, that they would call my ex to account for his treatment of me, and that they would apologize for supporting him to my personal detriment all these years. I just wanted an apology and some balance.

How are things now? I have received a few apologies, but not from the key players. The balance still tips in favor of those with influence and power and against those who have been mistreated. You probably don’t know that my ex files countless suits against me on an average of three times a year in civil and family courts. My father passed away in 2011 and all of that inheritance money… over $500,000… is gone because of having to constantly respond to endless litigations. That makes me want to vomit! Who does that? A mentally ill person with an axe to grind, that’s who! It’s gotten to the point now where I have no money left, nor do my family and friends. More than that, I have lost the will to fight in court anymore. I’m beleaguered and exhausted, drained of all my resources inside and out. For years, on Easter I would send a heart-felt letter, an olive branch, asking for peace for our children. For them I begged for the litigation which caused the poverty and stress to stop. He. Couldn’t. Do. It. He has surrounded himself with enablers who do not question him. It’s one thing to know that this is the typical strategy of a narcissistic ex, but it’s another thing to be the recipient of this litigious behavior. High conflict harms children. Litigious lawyers like the one he has chosen do not care about harming children. It’s bad! I am told it will never stop. A narcissist needs a perceived win so desperately that they will stop at nothing. I’ve taken another dive into the spiritual deep end and am learning to let go, surrender, and embrace what is, rather than fight it. If I lose my little amount of money, so be it. If I lose my reputation, so be it. If I lose my house, so be it. If I lose the last thread of my reputation, so be it. I’ve even come to say to myself, If I lose my own children, so be it. I don’t want it, but I’ve come to learn that even the courts, the supposed centers of justice in my country, are impressed with the loudest, richest, and most persistent voices. Even though I am being bullied, I refuse to become one. My children know my love for them is unwavering and I would do anything for them. Our bond and attachment is secure. I want my children to know they were conceived in love. At least on my part, and to the best of my ability which was not perfect by any means. Even if I end up on the street, I want my kids to know that I did my very best to provide them with safe, happy, love-filled lives.

I’ve lost friends but I’ve made new ones. There are a lot of people who believe my story. It’s out there. I can’t take it back. Nor would I. My faith has been restored that more and more people are becoming aware of the silencing of survivors like me that goes on every day. I don’t feel sorry for myself. I don’t call myself a victim but a survivor. I don’t have false hopes in those with power and influence. Even though my faith has dramatically changed, I haven’t lost it. I was broken but now I’m whole. I am broke and getting more broke, but I’ll figure it out. The person I was at the beginning of this story… strong, alive, happy, smart, beautiful, funny, imaginative and resourceful… that’s still me. I’ve been through the fire that still blazes beneath me. But I know I’m going to make it.

I hope no other woman has to go through what I went through. But if she does, I’m going to listen to her, believe her, and be a friend and support to her. That’s the least she deserves.

Thank you for hearing me and, if you do, for believing me.

Julie

(Julie is a member of The Lasting Supper. We warmly invite you to join us.)

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89 Responses

  1. Melissa says:

    David,
    Can you start a gofundme account for Julie? I fully support her and her story and it would be nice to be able to $$ behind the emotional support!

  2. Alpha Lim says:

    Thank you, Julie, for speaking up.

    Thank you, David, for keeping her words up.

  3. Dee Parsons says:

    Meliisa
    We have a Go Fund Me Account for Julie which has raised over $7000. It is still open for donations.
    http://www.gofundme.com/ko5bn8?utm_content=buffer30c17&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

  4. Dee Parsons says:

    Julie
    Thank you for telling your story. You have touched the lives of many people in the past year. You are loved.

  5. AnnieBanannie says:

    Hi Melissa- Dee from Wartburg Watch started one back in January. Here’s the link.
    http://www.gofundme.com/ko5bn8

  6. Doug Sloan says:

    Sounds like what Julie needs is a pro bono bulldog lawyer.

  7. Caryn LeMur says:

    Julie’s story is one that breaks the heart. Her husband’s ability to offer counter-claims on 27 Jan (on the world-wide Internet) was noted to have zero actual evidence attached. On the other hand, Julie posted evidence upon evidence (shown in the RL Stollar blog).

    One quote I found haunting in Julie’s story was this one: ” That is really what NPDs are so skilled at… creating proxies so they look blameless. ”

    Today, a poster named “Exile Child” posted on Sarah Moon’s Patheos blog. The name ‘Exile Child’ had no history in Disqus (as if recently created as a proxy). Exile Child then claimed neutrality, but used loaded Hitler analogies, and other semantic phrases to make her weak case appear stronger.

    Amazingly, Exile Child then concluded with a single scripture completely out of context, “Do not judge, lest you be judged”. The scripture passage in reality concludes with two statements: the first encouraging self-introspection over judging others; and the second insisting that you practice discernment, and determine whom is violent and/or whom is an abuser.

    Yes, that is exactly what this statement means, “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.” [Matt 7:6]

    This is one of the key passages defending the Internet and public questioning of the behaviors and attitudes of Tony Jones and the Emergent Movement.

    I find it remarkable, and oddly humorous, that Exile Child helped people to find the very passage that insists you study the behaviors and attitudes of people like Tony Jones and his supporters.

    And then, insists that you determine if Tony is a vicious dog or an attacking pig.

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/sarahoverthemoon/2015/04/tony-jones-cross-abuse/#comment-1989531943

    Sincerely; Caryn

  8. Tim WB says:

    Julie, you are one of the bravest and most articulate people I know.

    Thank you for taking the time to write everything down in one place.
    It helped me get an overall picture of the events of the past 6 years.

  9. Joy says:

    I believe you and I’m very sorry for all that you have been and are going through. xx

  10. Taunya R says:

    Julie – you are amazingly brave! I have been threatened for even remotely hinting at impropriety from where I used to go. I have been told I am only causing further harm and damage to the VERY person responsible for destroying people, including a few suicides. And it’s hard to speak up on the internet when people can be so callous. But you are brave…and thank you for doing that.

  11. Teague Frawley says:

    Julie I believe you and thank you for telling your story! IMO, NPD is almost a prerequisite are becoming a church leader regardless which flavor the church is.

  12. Julie says:

    Julie, I believe you! I sincerely thank you for telling your story.

    And now for my sarcasm: The eye of a needle is quite small…and I’d love to see many of those involved in your abuse work on squeezing their enlarged heads through that opening. Visualizing it makes me laugh!

  13. irreverance says:

    Julie – Thank you for sharing your story with us in a single post. Up until now, we’ve only had bits and pieces scattered around that we had to put together. This really helps me understand more about where you are coming from. And, David, thank you for generously giving her the space for this.

  14. Nathanael says:

    Julie, your story makes me so sad, and so angry. Thank you for writing this. It is good to have it in one place. Your courage and honesty is inspiring, and I hope more people will believe you and take this story to heart.

  15. Elizabeth R says:

    Julie, I hear you, and I believe you. I’m so sorry for what you’ve been through and what you are still going through.

  16. Curtis says:

    What is the current status of the conflict between Julie & Tony? Last I heard, Tony was not returning one of the children, in violation of the custody agreement, and Tony was threatening lawsuits over loss of income. Did the custody issue get resolved? Is Tony launching new lawsuits? I’m wondering what the current status is.

  17. Julie, thank you for sharing your story. I will continue to keep you and your children in my prayers!

  18. Eric says:

    Julie, I believe you and commend you.

    Most people are completely unaware of how very broken the US court system is for civil and family law. Criminal court is quite broken as well but the travesties permitted in family/civil courts are insane. An abuser with means can use these broken systems to further abuse their target in a much more satisfying manner: perpetual litigation, financial ruin, and long term emotional stress.

    I got to watch as an NPD (accused of marital rape) smiled ear to ear as his victim cried in court trying to testify. Family and civil courts are nothing but a playground to this personality type. They get off on it. And our “system” encourages them.

    I’m sorry that you have had to go through all of this and that it is continuing unabated.

    I hear you. Every word.

  19. Jennifer says:

    I believe you, Julie.

  20. Franklin Harrison says:

    Julie, I am overjoyed to see an entire post that is just YOU sharing YOUR story! I am glad that you do have platforms to shout it from the rooftops.

  21. Julie, I have had dealings with your Ex, and his Pastor, in the past and all I can say is that every word you wrote echoed with me. If you are unwilling to join their puppet show, you have no value to them and they will push you aside like yesterdays news – and at the same time, they will email me and ask me to support their endeavors.

  22. Amarantine says:

    BELIEVED

  23. Julie McMahon says:

    Thank you for listening and caring. I am just one casualty of the Emergent/Convergent/Submergent progressive Christianity author/speaker/event promoting machine. I am sorry for all who have been mistreated and tossed aside in the name of book endorsements/sales and filling an event. It’s wrong and more so because it is under the banner of God. I do think you reap what you sow and it will eventually catch up with them. People are sick of this and the collective consciousness has been raised. They are not fooling anyway. Take action with your feet and refuse to go/buy/or read the junk.

  24. Sarah says:

    Julie, I believe you.

  25. Shazza tha dazzla says:

    Well said Julie. Why support them???

    They tried to take your dignity, but it’s obvious they didn’t succeed. Stand tall. Hang in there. There’s very little justice in the court system, but we know what justice and fairness is, and we support you!

  26. Jo Hilder says:

    I believe you Julie. You’re NOT alone. You are amazing, and you are loved. xxxx

  27. Wish I could say I am shocked by Julie’s story. But the craziness coming from cheaters and their cohorts is not out of the norm for those of us who have survived infidelity. I think it is even worse when it has a spiritual/Christian spin, though. Christians say a lot of stupid and hurtful things to adultery/infidelity survivors (e.g. http://www.divorceminister.com/stupid-things-naive-christians-say/).

    So glad, Julie, you are sharing your story and not giving into the intimidation. It might look and feel like the darkness is winning, but we all know the Light cannot be overcome by darkness in the end. God sees all of this, and God is both good and just.

    Blessings upon you and yours!
    DM

  28. Reema says:

    It surprises me that your ex-husband’s brand of Christianity in some way advocates polygamy. My religion suffers from similar abuse. The media has made great strides in shaming Islam because they claim it validates polygamy. Indeed, they are speaking out of historical context and without reference to scholastic study. Such abuse of scripture continues to legitimate the authority of those in power (i.e. patriarchy). I’m sorry you had to go through such horrors. For what it’s worth, I believe you. Stay strong and keep moving forward.

  29. Michaela says:

    Awesome story, Julie! I literally pray for you every day throughout my day.

    I can tell that David Hayward (here at The Naked Pastor), Brad Sargent’s blog, and others have really threatened The Emergent Crowd (Tony Jones, his co-pastor/friend/business partner Doug Pagitt, pastor Brian McLaren in Florida). They have been relentless in attacking the rest of us who have given a Julie a voice. Apparently they all wonder why.

    There’s some bizarre woman “Kandace” who supposedly is doing digital research in California and wanting to research anybody who has supported Julie. Kandace claims to have gotten lots of emails from concerned people who want to know. How would: a) anybody know about this story about Julie and ex-husband Tony except those reading The Wartburg Watch and The Naked Pastor? b) how would anybody know who “Kandace” is? c) Why would anybody waste valuable time contacting some nobody like Kandace and emailing her their “concerns”?

    Could “Kandace” please post her tax returns, all sources of income and W-4s and 1099s online. I think if we follow the money it will surely lead back to the Emergent Crowd and that public relations firm in MN that Tony Jones hired.

    Others on the Open Discussion forum at The Wartburg Watch blog think that “Kandace” is a cover for XianAtty, a fellow Florida resident to emergent leader Brian McLaren.

    (I have contacted all of the big Free Speech groups and Ivy League schools to start writing about this story: The Emergent Crowd trying to silence Free Speech in the U.S. and Canada.)

    “Kandace” wants to know why were are discussing this. Kandace, apparently falsely, claims to have gone to graduate school. Why doesn’t someone in graduate school know about Free Speech and especially somebody studying digital media?

    In my opinion Kandace should leave our country (the United States) and agree to NEVER return and go to some country that has ZERO Free Speech rights. Kandace is AN INGRATE!

    Along with Kandace we also have the following people who don’t like Free Speech and immediately need to leave the country and make their citizenship spots available to people from other countries who would be GRATEFUL to be in the U.S.

    1. Kandace, husband and 2 kids leaving US: 4 slots
    2. Brian McLaren and wife leaving US: 2 slots
    3. XianAtty: leaving US: 1 slot (perhaps more)
    4. Doug Pagitt and wife: leaving US: 2 slots
    5. Tony Jones and Courtney: leaving US: 2 slots
    6. Tony Jones’ MN public relations firm: leaving the US – all of ’em (10 slots or more)

    So far I’m nearing a count of at least 20 people on the Tony Jones/BrianMcLaren/Doug Pagitt/Emergent Crowd side who don’t like Free Speech. Fine, LEAVE AND NEVER, EVER, EVER COME BACK!!! They are complete total ingrates and bullies. Every last one of them. LEAVE, LEAVE, LEAVE!

    Volunteers to drive these ingrates to the airport and toss them on a plane to some country with NO FREE SPEECH RIGHTS?

    Brad and I are in California: We’ll take care of Kandace and family!!

  30. GuruMike says:

    I believe you, and I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with all of this.

  31. Deb says:

    Julie
    I believe you. God will make the truth known. <3

  32. Mindi says:

    Julie, thank you for sharing your story. You are courageous and my prayers are with you. David, thank you for lending your voice.

  33. Karen says:

    Julie –
    I survived a marriage to a man with significant mental health issues (addiction issues that involved serial affairs), and I just want you to know that I completed understand the distress and the behavioral changes that go along with having a close relationship with someone with serious problems. Usually, it results in the development of some seriously dysfunctional coping skills, which is how one adapts to surviving in the relationship. I now say (more than 10 years later) that being married to a crazy person made me crazy for awhile. Once I got out of the relationship, I got help and I got better. The word “crazy” was seriously abused and misused in your case, but it is entirely normal to behave dysfunctionally during the break-up of a relationship involving someone with serious mental health issues. One of the things most people don’t get is how much the partner of a person with addiction or mental health problems is affected. You don’t just walk away without having to adjust your coping skills and behavior back to something that works better with normal people…. Anyway, I just wanted to comment on what I’ll call “the part where you weren’t perfect” to point out hoe utterly ridiculous it is for others to try to discredit your story because you reacted less than perfectly. It is impossible to walk away unscathed, and some dysfunctional behavior, at least in the short term, should be expected from anyone who has lived through such a difficult relationship.

  34. Janet Yeats says:

    Julie – what bravery to tell your story, especially when there are those who will not hear it. I hear you and have no difficulty believing your story. You are courageous and that, in itself, requires courage!

  35. Tim WB says:

    Michaela,

    For the record, “Kandace” either misspelt her own name, or has no online presence.
    Which is strange for someone who claims to have written a thesis on digital media.

  36. Michaela says:

    @Tim WB,

    Thanks for the sleuthing, Tim! Yes, I can blow “holes” in Kandace’s story a mile wide. So can everybody else with at least two working brain cells. “Kandace” is just another paid operative for the Emergent Crowd.

    My offer still stands: Since they don’t like Free Speech, we can take them to the airport and toss them on planes to countries that have NO Free Speech rights. They don’t like our country…fine…LEAVE! There are so many suffering people in other countries who would be GRATEFUL to be in the United States. We can just do a citizen swap. We’ve got about 20 Emergent Leaders and their cohorts who don’t like this country (the United States) and Free Speech rights…well then…GET OUT!!!

    Emergent Leader Brian McLaren doesn’t like Free Speech, fine pal…pack up and leave and don’t EVER come back to the United States. Brian should be sent to a country with NO Free Speech Rights. Oh, and another thing…no whining and complaining for Brian & Company once they are in a country with ZERO Free Speech rights. Ditto Tony Jones. Ditto Doug Pagitt. Ditto all of their equally pathetic, spineless coward friends. Pack up and get out. You need a ride, fine…I’m free to toss you on a plane and slam the door shut!

    I’m equally free to pick up persecuted people fleeing from other countries who’d have a lot more GRATITUDE to be in the United States with its plethora of freedoms than Brian McLaren, Tony Jones, Doug Pagitt and the rest.

  37. Michaela says:

    @ [Sleuth] Tim WB,

    Here Tim is one (of several) posts that have been taken from “Kandace’s” website and put up on The Wartburg Watch. Congratulations, Tim –because I believe the Emergent Crowd is threatened by you! I think it’s you they are referring to.

    Kandace [seems to me this is the first lie and this person is a paid Emergent operative] • 4 days ago
    Okay…whew…yes, when you all said I was naive [second Lie] when I suggested those who have been platforming the allegations against Tony Jones should also be explored [third Lie of a Paid Operative], I was sort of offended [Fourth Lie]. I have some professional competency [Nonsense! Fifth Lie!] so it felt dismissive [Sixth Lie]. But as things have evolved, I’ve had a good cry [Seventh Lie; what crying over the money you lost if the Emergent Crowd paid you more if you thought we’d be SO STUPID to listen to your LYING?]which I’ll tell you about in a minute [Please don’t. We really don’t need to listen to any more of your LYING!!] and I can admit you were right. But first the emails you’ve sent [This is what…the Eighth or Ninth LIE]: the people that emailers [The 10th LIE] were most curious [11th LIE] about their real life relationship [12th LIE] with Julie [13th LIE] were Tim WIlson Brown and David Hayward, followed closely by RL Stollar and Brad Sargent, and then Stephanie Drury, Amy Smith, and Julia Doughty [ALL LIES…ENDING AT LIE 19]. I saw at least two commenters [LIE 20] here mentioned some others which we’ll add to the list [LIE 21, plan on getting a life “Kandace”?]. One person [LIE 22] also mentioned Dee from Wartburg [LIE 23], but a couple people [LIE 24] stated they saw her as being in a different category than some of the others so…we’ll see about that one [LIE 25]. There are also a few others that came up less. [LIE 26]

    There you have it, Tim, the PAID LIARS are BACK in force. They need to get their acts together and pack their bags. They really don’t like the United States and its Free Speech freedoms. So they need to leave and NEVER come back.

    Let’s have a convoy to the airport to rid our country of ALL OF THEM!! Woo hoo!!!

    If you’ve emailed me, I will eventually get to it. I’ve received a lot more emails than I expected (again, you may call me naive). Most of the emails that came in were from people who said they were scared of questioning some of the online personalities who they saw as being mean and lacking the ethical standards of professional advocates (this is what they said: don’t shoot the messenger!). Some of the emails specifically attacked me for even asking the question. I have decided not to reveal any confidentialities, because I promised some people I wouldn’t, but there’s definitely been a few who used a lot of forceful, power-language to convince me why I should NOT investigate those platforming the allegations. Some of these were incredibly rude and had all the marks of WASP manipulation. This was the part that gave me a good cry.

    The other thing to know is I am not alone. Crazy as this is, one of the people on the list actually tried to assert themselves as an impartial helper who could look for bias. Um no. There was one or two people with some relevant background who I think might lend some help. Also though I heard from a writer who is interested in the ties between this story and the Rolling Stones stuff.

    I’m feeling kind of down on myself that I am not stronger in the face of this opposition, but at least I know from the emails of others that I am not the only one who is fearful in asking questions. It gives me a little courage to realize that I am not the only one who is asking these questions and I am not crazy either. 😉

    Respect to all of you for participating in the discussion and thanks for the emails. If I haven’t gotten to yours yet, I will. I had to work today!”

  38. Michaela says:

    ^
    Note: I forgot to mention…the rest of “Kandace’s” supposed concern post is ALL LIES! Easily 50 lies.

  39. Michaela says:

    ^”Kandace” LIED in the other paragraphs, from “If you’ve emailed me….to work today!”

  40. Julie, you are a wonderful person. I’m very glad your voice is heard.

  41. Leigh says:

    Julie, for what it’s worth, I affirm you and your courage to tell your story against such harrowing opposition. I pray that you and your children will find peace and resolution to this awful situation.

    You are real. Your hurts are real. And you’ve been heard.

    God’s abiding presence go with you always.

  42. purvez says:

    I BELIEVE….and I’m very sorry for what you’ve gone through.

  43. “I accept responsibility for how distraught I was and how I behaved during that time. But I won’t accept responsibility for being shamed, silenced, bullied and gaslighted.”

    Being angry and ’emotional’ is an appropriate response to abuse. That sort of treatment would turn anyone ‘crazy’! Love and blessings from an Aussie sister!

  44. Thanks for posting, Julie. Living under severe stress will distort anyone’s actions and reactions. That’s why nobody in such a situation ever reaches some mythical standard of perfection. My second wife (diagnosed with a personality disorder with borderline and histrionic features as part of the custody case after severely abusing our son) certainly left me a mess at the time and also found a way to keep a court case going for decades. (That and medical care for my son pushed me into bankruptcy at one point.) I know it’s overwhelming and sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel looks more like an oncoming train. My older son is thirty now, married with a daughter and doing well. My other kids are all doing great as well. And my wife and I are about to celebrate our 25th anniversary. Even in our broken family court system, there’s only so far it can go. Eventually the kids grow up and all other claims and appeals are concluded. It seems never-ending during the midst of the onslaught, but it actually does at some point. Take care.

  45. Lydia says:

    “I’d become expendable.”

    That totally sums it up.That is the way that world works. The world of celebrity Christianity. The very people you really thought you could trust are not what you thought they were. It was all a facade. Been there, seen it.

    Julie, You have made a wise decision about the legal battles. You are not dealing with a reasonable man. I wish people could understand this ONE MAJOR ASPECT of narcissists. They are not reasonable at all. It can take years to figure this out that not only draining you dry , but also expending his own resources on legal battles has only to do with him. It has nothing to do with his children and how that money could be best used for them, his new wife or even you. That might sound ridiculous because of all the people he is hurting but in his world, it is only about him. He is toxic. Others who support or protect him should be considered radioactive, too.

    I will also second Caryn’s comment above and especially:

    “Yes, that is exactly what this statement means, “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.” [Matt 7:6]”

    I pray for you much joy and hope.

  46. Lydia says:

    “It surprises me that your ex-husband’s brand of Christianity in some way advocates polygamy. My religion suffers from similar abuse”

    Reema, That was my first thought when I heard Tony Jones believed in a “sacramental wife” and a “legal wife”. He is joining the ranks of Mormonism or some brands of Islam. What is shocking is how many in his circle have gone along with it.

    For example, I thought Rachel Held Evans and Nadia Boltz Weber were feminists.

  47. Reema says:

    Lydia, that’s interesting and disconcerting. How do you reconcile a communal order (patriarchy) based on the systematic and hegemonic abuse of women with a political philosophy (feminism) purporting to uphold their rights and freedoms? Polygamy, during the formation of Islam, was a last resort attempt to salvage order. War left numerous widows with children, necessitating the financial support of more than one wife. Sorry, resources providing access to equal rights, which is a product of modernity, were nonexistent. This, unfortunately, continues to be the case.

  48. Mae says:

    You are so brave – I believe you!! Your children are lucky to have such a strong mama.

  49. Jesus, be near Julie as she walks this sometimes lonely road. Continue to bring healthy community around her who listen, pray, and share salving words. Bring to light all that has been hidden in darkness. Vindicate. Shepherd Julie and her family with sweetness and light. Come to her aid. Protect her and her children. Help us all know that YOU SEE all this. And You are good, nonetheless. Help Julie to see the goodness of You in the land of the living. Bring her near to You. Speak wisdom and grace and relinquishment over her. Amen.

  50. Ducatihero says:

    This sounds so similar to what my friend went through. There came a point where all I could do was just to be there. She found the courage to take a stand as you have and is now happily married and free from her psychopathic ex- husband. I hope that is an encouragement.

  51. JulieW says:

    I believe you Julie.

  52. Debra Davis says:

    Sending love, hugs, and a little bit of money (through the gofundme account) your way. I have followed your story from the first time it appeared here on David’s site. You are so brave and courageous and your deep love for your children is powerful and strong. I also love the title of this blog post “…this is my story, this is my song”. I heard the words playing a tune in my head so I Googled it and sure enough the song Blessed Assurance (a hymn I sang many times in childhood) popped up. A comforting and powerful song. Thanks so much Julie, for telling your story.

  53. Still Healing says:

    I have no idea what brought this post up on my feed and had me look at it. Typically these things drive me nuts but this one hit home. I didn’t marry the guy, but I was raped and abused by a “counter culture movement” leader who was starting some meeting at his home while we were in university. Raped and abused for months, had money stolen from accounts, his npo status is technically illegal and was getting money from community to fund projects that would never be finished… But the relationship still traumatised me. Year later, in a healthy relationship, I can finally start to let go but then something will bring it all up again.

    No I didn’t marry him but the relationship almost brought a child. He later lied and said he was sterile and there was no way I could have been pregnant (brought short by its own traumatizing 6 week miscarriage in a Porto-potty in the north west.) told my roommates that I would like and try to tell them he did things that he didn’t. And tried using spiritual “visions” to control my actions and the people around me. In the mean time he was cheating on me with 2 other women, one of whom is now his wife. She as evil as him.

    These situations are far from unfortunate and why they happen I don’t know. Some a result of our own poor choices I suppose but when we expect to have people to lean on…. Well… The few who do know my story asked how I got through with a faith in God. I told them I knew it was the devil when he was trying to and succeeding in alienating me. Jesus and God was all I had left.

    Doesn’t change what happened. Still dealing with occasional PTSD like flare-ups. Happy to have a fiancé who loves and supports me through the rough stuff and encourages my walk with God and challenges me to to succeed and brings out my best. When Paul compares Jesus and the church to a wife and husband I can finally see how thay works. Still a constant battle of forgiveness and giving up to God a past the devil would so love me to hold on to, but proud that my identity isn’t in person or a situation but a Christ who redeemed it anyway.

  54. I love the vulnerable but strong stories that are being shared here. Thanks so much!

  55. Kristin Engen says:

    Julie, you are so brave and so loved.

  56. Michaela says:

    You know, something just occurred to me: Since Tony Jones keeps filing lawsuits against Julie three times per year than he needs to be marked as a Vexatious Litigant in the State of Minnesota and not permitted to litigate at all.

    So that’s what I’m working on right now. I succeeded in California in getting another man marked as a Vexatious Litigant and he is NOT permitted by the California Judiciary to file ANY lawsuits without judicial permission.

    I will work on putting a stop to Tony Jones’ garbage!!!

  57. Cerbaz says:

    Go Michaela!

  58. Exile Child says:

    Dear Julie,

    I read your story once yesterday, and again tonight, and I get a deep aching pit in my stomach each time. As I said elsewhere, I went through a divorce, and the amount of pain during that time was almost too much to bear for my ex-wife and for me. As you tell your story, some of those feelings of loss and heartache come sweeping back… the human experience at times can be so painfully overwhelming that it makes you wonder how you don’t crack in half and stop breathing. That is the kind of pain you discuss, and it is real and I hear you.

    I want to give you full disclosure since I am speaking so personally: I am an artist living in Los Angeles. I got married at 21 while still attending Biola University, but very soon after Biola my theology started to change, and that brought a whole slew of painful divisions between my ex-wife and me. We got divorced and I made a clean break from Christianity because I couldn’t hang with the theology. My only anchor in the faith was a small church-like thing led by Barry Taylor. Barry is the only preacher I can fully tolerate, to this day. But I got busy and stopped going so much. About 3 years ago I wrote a formal letter to my family, as a way to reconnect (we didn’t talk for 2 years because of the divorce). I titled it “My Testimony” and I laid it out in clear thought why I changed during that divorce time, and the theological hoops I went through. As I wrote the Testimony, I googled Walter Brueggemann to see if he was still alive, because I loved him back in college. I discovered Homebrewed Christianity because Walter and Barry Taylor have been guests on the HC podcast many times. I had no idea there was a whole Christian world that wasn’t fundamentalist (meaning against gays, hell for unbelievers, etc). I found it fascinating and I have listened to many podcasts since.

    It is only in the past 2 years that I have been a contributor (commenting) on Homebrewed’s website. Personally, I don’t even care whether or not God exists: I am mainly interested in the idea of God, as a construct. Sometimes I have given Homebrewed some hell for being so academic and unable to let go of trying to get it right, and sometimes I have to admit that I am not a theologian and I don’t know what the hell they are talking about. I have met Tripp Fuller a few times now and I like the guy. I had heard the name Tony Jones over the past year and really only got to know his theology through a recent podcast he did with Homebrewed. I thought he had some interesting ideas. I have never met him or read his books. I have read many Brueggemann books and one Peter Rollins book, but I know nothing else about this emergent world.

    That is how I found out about this whole thing: just by following some comments and hearing about it. I have 3 kids and a wife and a fledging art career to try to attend to, so I have no time to chat with Tripp or Barry Taylor about issues like the Tony Jones scandal or whatever it is called. I have come to like my status as a total outsider: I am on nobody’s side. I am free to pursue ideas and truth wherever it leads me, I don’t work for anybody, I am an artist.

    So that is my background and story, and I got interested in this issue and your story because I think there are powerful ideas at work within them, and I have enjoyed thinking about them and participating. I struggle with technology and social media because it is so new and I think it has huge ramifications for humanity and how we communicate.

    Thank you for sharing. Thank you for being a role model for women and mothers, and I truly hope that peace and reconciliation will come soon.

    -Mike Hernandez ( I go by my middle name)

  59. Julie says:

    Then you should be made aware that Tripp Fuller is an NPD enabler, full stop. Feverishly deleting comments from the great debacle post on the Homebrewed Christianity Facebook page. I’ve never met Tripp Fuller. However, I can tell you that he is a major part of the problem and why abuse continues. So is Peter Rollins who declared he needed to “distant himself” from his good friend at Stuff Christian Culture Likes because of her taking a stand against abuse.

  60. Tim WB says:

    Hi Exile Child/Mike,

    Welcome to nakedpastor. This is the first time I’ve read any of your comments, so thank you for providing context and a summary of your experience. You’ll find many people who have moved away from fundamentalism in various directions here.

    I’ve not read much of Homebrewed, because I had a nasty first experience on their Facebook page where all the comments myself and others made were deleted. I guess we asked awkward, critical questions about Pete Rollins and Tony Jones, and they didn’t feel they were appropriate for that forum.

    Many of us are still trying to get our heads around the serious implications of Tony Jones’ self-disclosed Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) diagnosis. An untreated personality disorder affects all of a person’s interactions with others, and NPD sufferers in particular have a pathological need to gather others who admire, enable, and even worship them. This actively works against any treatment for their disorder, and it impacts on the social health of their admirers.

    I thought you might appreciate some background on Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and typical behaviours that sufferers exhibit:

    “Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a serious condition which affects an estimated 1% of the population. Narcissism is characterized by an extreme self-interest and promotion with an accompanying lack of concern for the needs of others.”
    http://outofthefog.net/Disorders/NPD.html

    “A set of behaviors characterized by a pattern of grandiosity, self-centered focus, need for admiration, self-serving attitude and a lack of empathy or consideration for others.”
    http://outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/Narcissism.html

    “Individuals who suffer from Personality Disorders are often preoccupied with their own agendas, sometimes to the exclusion of the needs and concerns of others. This is sometimes interpreted by others as a lack of moral conscience.”
    http://outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/LackOfConscience.html

    “A way of controlling or abusing another person by manipulating other people into unwittingly backing “doing the dirty work” ”
    http://outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/ProxyRecruitment.html

    In the context of these typical Narcissistic behaviours, this next link is one way Jones’ has disclosed his diagnosis. On what is meant to be a review of someone else’s book, he takes center stage, and attempts to spin a pathological personality disorder into something positive. These don’t look like the words of someone who understands their disorder as a negative factor, and is attempting to manage it.
    http://www.redletterchristians.org/narcissistic-yet-well-balanced-world-changer/

    For another, less fawning perspective, see:
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2015/02/why-we-need-to-talk-about-narcissism-tony-jones-edition.html
    which link’s to Tony’s second, edited statement about the abuse allegations (for reference, it’s the 11 page version – the original was 12 pages and the changes unacknowledged).

    Personally, in the context of a pathological degree of driven narcissism, I find it difficult to believe anything Tony Jones says at face value.

    But I believe each person must make up their own mind – but understanding the typical symptoms of this personality disorder has helped me immensely, as it radically changed how I interpreted Jones’ behaviour.

  61. gena says:

    Dear julie,
    I support you. I saw in real life how supportive of a wife you were back in the colonial days, jumping in and volunteering with the youth with your fun personality. You were never in my opinion mentally unstable and i never witnessed anything but unconditional support. I am so sorry for what you are fling through. These crazy beliefs that be and his friends are preaching are heretical. Spiritual wife and legal wife? Unbiblical garbage and nonsense. I have known both of you and i have no trouble believing your story.by any stretch. I only hope i can be of support to you in real life at some point. I grieve add i know the lord grieves this situation. Ephesians 5 is pretty darn clear about the husbands role. There is no way you can spin it. Please do not give up on the church……i have been to some pretty dysfunctional, unbiblical ones myself and i am thankful to be at one now where the word of god is being preached and humbly walked out. Notate a place where your pastor will tell at you of you take a French fry off his plate. ( yes tony did that to me once at fuddruckers) or make yell at youth of they break a plate in your church add he did say a tec weekend once. My intention is not to slander him, i grieve for where he is now and the level of deception that is doubt taking place. I am praying for repentance and “metanoia.” the first time i ever heard that word was from tony at atec weekend when i was14. 180 degree turn. I pray that this happens with him and paggitt. God is able.
    Much love too you and prayers. God sees this.
    Love to you,
    Gena

  62. gena says:

    Sorry for the errors. Auto correctwin. Gena fail b

  63. Julie says:

    Gena,
    Love back to you. I actually remember that metanoia talk! May God turn us 180 degrees when we need it. May we always have people in our lives to help turn us around when we get off track.
    Julie

  64. Exile Child says:

    Thank you Tim, and Julie for the welcome and interacting with me here. I can understand why comments were deleted if they were deemed a hindrance and distraction from H.C. mission, and I can also understand your side when you felt that was a nasty first experience, to have your input deleted. I am not here to say who is right and what is appropriate in that regard, although I do have my opinions.

    If being friends with Tony Jones makes one an enabler of terrible things, than it looks like Tripp is guilty as charged. I disagree with that notion, but I have explained my thoughts on that and we can let that be.

    Thank you Tim for the lengthy and very helpful description of NPD. I think many famous and successful people in history (as well as many people who tried in vain to be famous) had NPD, and left a legacy of great things but also pain. One of my former friends probably very likely has NPD, and he left a wake of destruction in his path. It arguably helped drag down someone else’s marriage, and that led to a painful situation that sounds very much like this whole thing. It was awful. I permanently cut ties with some of those people, while continuing to be friends and support some others. The healing process took years, and in some way may still be going on, and one of the steps for those most affected was to stop demonizing the one with NPD and realize that the person with NPD is also a victim of NPD.

    NPD and divorce and cheating are real and scary and awful. As a total outsider, I hope to support Julie and Tony in a small way by just helping the conversation go forward in such a way that produces the greatest chance of a lasting reconciliation and peace. I really mean that, because of my own experience described above, and that is why I stepped into this whole commenting thing. Between this blogpost and the recent Sarah Moon blogpost, I have pretty much exhausted all my thoughts on the matter, and unless there is more feedback to respond to I am pretty much done.

    Thanks for sharing and listening everybody.

    Mike

  65. Tim WB says:

    Mike/ExileChild,

    I believe Tony Jones needs at least a few very good friends.

    But there’s a vital distinction you’re missing: between friend and enabler.

    Friends don’t damage other friends’ mental health, or enable their disorders.
    Friends don’t sit back when their friend’s behaviour is out of control.
    Friends don’t let friends abuse the vulnerable.

    That said, Tony Jones is responsible for managing his own mental health, and asking for help when he needs it. But given that he’s publicly disclosed his Narcissistic Personality Disorder diagnosis, surely his friends could learn about this disorder, and perhaps have private conversations about how they might help.

    Unfortunately, if that doesn’t make any difference, there are no leaders and no oversight in Emergent. Some would say that this is an enviable position, but it also puts Tony in a dangerous situation, speaking from the perspective of his mental health. In some organisations, and overseer would work with the staff member to assist them in their work environment. But there’s no-one like that here.

    So I have no idea how to help him at this point.

  66. Yasmin says:

    Julie, I believe you and support you absolutely.

    Michaela, at the moment, I do not have time to devote to much research or emailing, but I hope that that will change in the near future, and I will then offer what ever services I can to help you mark Tony as a Vexatious Litigant, and to stop him. That, too, had occurred to me. In the meantime, I suggest we all keep mentioning the relentless litigation, and the documented facts of the case, as often as we can in as many places as we can. Documented evidence cannot be refuted, so let’s make sure to provide that as often as possible. (Kandace will ask for a raise because of all the extra work she’ll have to do. I wonder if she’s being paid by that PR firm that Tony hired. I think I did get an email from her, but deleted it on the assumption it was just another porn site that got through my spam filter. Little did I know it was far more revolting than that.)

    Hang in there, Julie! You are loved and supported more than you know, and always will be. There is no doubt at all that God is on your side. He may be taking His time to resolve this issue, but He WILL resolve it. While Tony himself may be too mentally ill to be able to help himself, that is not an excuse his friends can use, they have none at all, and God will hold them accountable for what they are doing. Your children are so very blessed to have you as their mother, to have you be the one that cares for them and supports them. You AND they are in my prayers at all times.

  67. Reg says:

    Very heartrending story Julie. Thanks for your courage to write about it. To put it more bluntly, you have guts lady.

    Here’s a link to something that I’m sure you will like a lot. It’s about “The Outcast”.

    You are in good company…

    https://www.facebook.com/notes/320336684670460/

  68. Exile Child says:

    Tony WB,

    I hear what you are saying, and I definitely understand the difference between friend and enabler, because I dealt with those issues personally with my former friend who is arguably NPD. If Tony has NPD, maybe right now he and his friends are dealing with these suggestions that you speak of, who knows?

    My whole mission is not to stand up for Tony Jones, or protect Tripp Fuller, or delegitimize Julie’s story… but to try to steer a conversation that supports Julie and supports Tony without taking sides. It’s a risky endeavor (and some might say impossible), but I am trying to model what that might look like as I have been thinking out loud in my comments here and at Moon’s Patheos post.

    I am not interested in what goes on behind closed doors, or what went on, in Julie’s house or Tony’s house. I am trying to only talk about what is fair to talk about in internet land, where most of us have never seen each other’s faces in real life, and most of us were not in the room when the deepest crap went down. The issues may be as old as mankind, but the way these are issues are being dealt with in the technological age brings incredibly new challenges.

    Perhaps these conversations will provoke deep stirring in the hearts and minds of those who are truly involved on the ground level, and inspire positive changes that would not as easily come if we just divide into two camps and let the best warrior with the best facts and the loudest friends and the most ruthless lawyers win.

    Thanks Tim WB

    Mike

  69. Michaela says:

    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” – Sir Edmund Burke,
    Irish political philosopher and statesmen

    @ExileChild,
    Jesus is very clear in the Bible about what to do in the case of Tony Jones: Repent/confess, make it right (apologize including before all), stop doing your bad behavior, and make restitution.

    You have given Tony Jones a pass on his bad behavior, which is enabling. You made this statement in your post, “…steps for those most affected was to stop demonizing the one with NPD and realize that the person with NPD is also a victim of NPD”. Nonsense!

    Tony Jones is NOT a victim. The guy went to Princeton University, writes books, speaks, etc. He knows PRECISELY what he is doing. And why does he do his bad behaviors? Because HE WANTS TO!

    A mistake is putting on a brown shoe with a blue shoe. But Tony Jones’ behaviors are very calculated.

    By the way your anemic post comes across just like the PAID Emergent Crowd operatives and their notorious manipulations.

  70. Michaela says:

    @Yasmin,
    Thanks so much for your encouragement in my campaign to get Tony Jones marked as a Vexatious Litigant in the State of Minnesota. I appreciate your support! Luckily, I work in law, have a family with lawyers, and know many top-notch, award-winning lawyers (and bosses: the cream of the crop of litigators in the US). I am very tenacious and creative. And I am DETERMINED!

    Have a beautiful day!

  71. Michaela says:

    @Exile Child,

    I think that Tony Jones owes his ex-wife Julie $500,000 (her inheritance that she got from her father’s estate that she spent on litigation with Tony), and countless other expenses. If Tony Jones wanted to “make it right” he should give Julie several million dollars, and cease and desist ALL of his bad behaviors, come clean, and stop all of his cohorts and hired hands, including firing the Minnesota public relations firm that he hired.

    In Alcoholics Anonymous they refer to this as going to any lengths to make amends. Perhaps Tony Jones should go to the rooms of open A.A. meetings (“closed” meetings are for those who only identify as alcoholics), be quiet for a change, learn from others, and learn how other people made amends to those they have harmed. And Tony Jones has harmed a lot of people and he has yet to make it right.

  72. Exile Child, you wrote, “I am not interested in what goes on behind closed doors…”

    Most of us are interested in what is continuing to go on in public! Silencing, deleting comments, never-ending litigation, false accusations, defence of abusive behaviour etc. We are also very interested in the fact that a self-confessed NPD is in a position of leadership in the church! A position from which he can inflict great harm to his brothers and sisters. Self-serving, self-aggrandising, self-obsessed – do these describe the characteristics of a servant heart to you!?

  73. Leslie says:

    There are a whole lot of things that bother me about this issue. Number 1 : the numerous lawsuits against Julie over so many years. This is definitely harassment. And so destructive ti the children. Number 2. The adultery covered up by ” spiritual wife”. And the church buys this and covers it up, it makes me sick

  74. Michaela says:

    Hi Caryn,
    Thanks for that post you made about poster “Exile Child” on Disqus and the sudden appearance, postings about Tony Jones, and weird manipulations of folks (or attempts). I thought too that “Exile Child” was one of many PAID OPERATIVE$ of Tony Jone$’ and his Emergent Friend$, Pa$tor Doug Pagitt (bu$iness partner with Tony Jone$ and co-pa$stor), pa$tor Brian McLaren (friend$ with Tony Jone$ and another one of Jone$ ardent defender$). They are all author$, $peakers, and have each other$ (green) back$! (aka money)

  75. Michaela says:

    Time to finish dissecting one of Tony Jone$ Paid Operative$ and that of the Emergent Crowd, “Kandace”, whom readers are posting over at The Wartburg Watch and I ran out of time to dissect the other paragraphs.

    “Kandace” [renamed by me “Can-Do-Anything-For-Money]:

    If you’ve emailed me [LIE 27 since “Kandace” is A NOBODY], I will eventually get to it [LIE 28, BECAUSE YOU DIDN’T GET ANYTHING]. I’ve received a lot more emails [LIE 29; NONSENSE -YOU’RE A PAID OPERATIVE AND A HU$TLER] than I expected [LIE 30; you got NOTHING] (again, you may call me naïve [LIE 31, NO, I’m calling you what you are A LIAR). Most of the emails [LIE 32, because there are NONE] that came in were from people [LIE 33, there were no people because you’re a NOBODY and NO ONE HAS HEARD OF YOU and you’re a HIRED OPERATIVE!] who said they were scared [LIE 34] of questioning [LIE 35] some of the online personalities [LIE 36] who they saw [LIE 37] as being mean [LIE 38] and lacking the ethical standards [LIE 39, that’s rich: somebody like you with NO ETHICS is giving an “Ethic$” Lecture?] of professional advocates [LIE 40] (this is what they said: don’t shoot the messenger! [LIE 41. Have you ever thought about what an EMBARA$$MENT you are to your grandmother? Why couldn’t you be like the other kids and do something decent?]. Some of the emails [LIE 42, there were no emails] specifically [LIE 43] attacked [LIE 44] me [LIE 45] for even asking the question [LIE 46; you’re a hired hu$tler and Paid Operative]. I have decided [LIE #47]not to reveal any confidentialities [LIE 48, back to my original point that because you’re a NOBODY, a paid Hu$tler that NOBODY contacted YOU!] because I promised [LIE 49, well we know for sure with you that talk AIN’T CHEAP and you charge for these Word$] some people I wouldn’t, but there’s definitely been a few who used a lot of forceful [LIE 50], power-language [LIE 51] to convince me why I should NOT [LIE 52]investigate [LIE 53]those platforming [LIE 54] the allegations [LIE 55]. Some of these were incredibly rude [LIE 56, I’m trying hard NOT TO LAUGH you are such a PATHETIC FOOL!!!] and had all the marks [LIE 57: no that’s “mark$” of the Paid Operative$ of Tony Jone$] of WASP [lLIE 58, this should read Wish-Away-Sick-Pastors like Tony Jones, Doug Pagitt, and Brian McLaren] manipulation [LIE 59; the manipulation is your$ and their$]. This was the part that gave me a good cry [LIE 60. You just are sorry you aren’t getting paid more as a Hu$tler for the Emergent Leader$.]

    The other thing to know is I am not alone [LIE 61. Darn right you’re alone. And you’ll be more alone when the Emergent Check$ stop coming.] . Crazy as this is [LIE 62], one of the people on the list actually tried to assert themselves as an impartial helper who could look for bias [LIE 63]. Um no. [Because they’re not bowing and $craping to your every whim and that of Tony Jone$?] There was one or two people [LIE 64, because you’re a nobody and nobody cares to contact you and waste their time on you] with some relevant background who I think might lend some help [LIE 65. You don’t mean “lend” you mean the Emergent pa$tor$ promised you money]. Also though I heard from a writer [LIE 65. Remember we’re talking about YOU and you’ll tell any lie for money!] who is interested in the ties between this story and the Rolling Stones stuff. [LIE 66]

    I’m feeling kind of down [LIE 67; well you are a Hu$tler so nobody Re$pect$ you] on myself [LIE 68] that I am not stronger in the face of this opposition [LIE 69, give it up, FOOL!], but at least I know from the emails of others [LIE 70, we covered this before that you’re a PAID Hu$tler and the email$ don’t exi$t] that I am not the only one who is fearful [LIE 71, trust me, we know you’re as BRAZEN as they come] in asking questions [LIE 72, manipulation$ of the narrative]. It gives me a little courage [LIE 73, no it give$ you more money from The Emergent Pa$tor$] to realize that I am not the only one who is asking these questions [LIE 74] and I am not crazy either. [LIE 75. Of course you’re not crazy! You’re a $lick Hu$tler for the Emergent Pa$tor$]

    Respect [LIE 76, you don’t Re$pect anyone that ha$n’t paid you] to all of you [they don’t exi$st becau$e you’re a two-bit Hu$tler, remember?] for participating in the discussion [LIE 78, you misspelled it and it should read “di$cu$$ion”] and thanks [LIE 79] for the emails [LIE 80] . If I haven’t gotten to yours yet [LIE 81 because they don’t exist because you’re a Paid Hu$tler], I will. I had to work today! [Ye$ you did. Writing this garbage for the Emergent Pa$tor$ and di$gracing your grandmother. When they were handing out grandkids, she got burned when she got you!]

    To The Naked Pastor Readers, I underestimated the LYING by a full 50%. I just winged it/guestimated yesterday. Today, I’m on it!

  76. Exile Child says:

    Hi everyone,

    Thank you Tim WB and Julie, for engaging with me above. I felt like we were very honest and fair with each other, and productive. I don’t want to derail this conversation though: I seem to be the only different voice in this comment thread, and I think the focus should be on Julie’s story and support for her, because Naked Pastor generously and kindly offered this space to her. So I will sign off. If anyone would like to personally engage me further, feel free to email me at gmh@exilechild.com. I am a real person with my own opinions and I am unconnected to Tony Jones and emergent. I also gave Julie my full disclosure statement above.

    Best to you all and with respect,

    Mike

  77. Michaela says:

    I checked the U.S. Department of State, Bureau of Consular Affairs’ instructions for how U.S. citizens renounce their U.S. citizenship.

    The Emergent Crowd (Tony Jones, Doug Pagitt, Brian McLaren, their friends and allies, hired operatives such as attorneys and public relations firms) don’t like the United States and the Free Speech rights that it affords. In fact, they are OFFENDED the rest of us are using our Free Speech rights (and that David Hayward at The Naked Pastor is using his Canadian Free Speech Rights).

    Since the Emergent Crowd and their allies don’t like the U.S., they agree to pack up, GET OUT, renounce their U.S. citizenship, NEVER return to the U.S., and go to live in countries with ZERO FREE SPEECH RIGHTS (and they forfeit the right to whine and complain, because after all that’s what they wanted, remember?).

    U.S. Department of State, Bureau of Consular Affairs website:

    “Renunciation of U.S. Nationality

    A. THE IMMIGRATION & NATIONALITY ACT

    Section 349(a)(5) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) (8 U.S.C. 1481(a)(5)) is the section of law governing the right of a United States citizen to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship. That section of law provides for the loss of nationality by voluntarily

    “(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state , in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State”

    B. ELEMENTS OF RENUNCIATION

    A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:
    1.appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,
    2.in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and
    3.sign an oath of renunciation

    Renunciations that do not meet the conditions described above have no legal effect. Because of the provisions of Section 349(a)(5), U.S. citizens cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail, through an agent, or while in the United States. In fact, U.S. courts have held certain attempts to renounce U.S. citizenship to be ineffective on a variety of grounds, as discussed below

    C. REQUIREMENT – RENOUNCE ALL RIGHTS AND PRIVILEGES

    A person seeking to renounce U.S. citizenship must renounce all the rights and privileges associated with such citizenships. In the case of Colon v. U.S. Department of State , 2 F.Supp.2d 43 (1998),the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia rejected Colon’s petition for a writ of mandamus directing the Secretary of State to approve a Certificate of Loss of Nationality in the case because he wanted to retain the right to live in the United States while claiming he was not a U.S. citizen.

    …And there’s a little bit more. But this should help the Emergent Leader$ get out of the country – the United States – whose freedoms, like Free Speech, they DISDAIN for the rest of us and don’t want us to practice. The sooner they leave the United States, the BETTER!

  78. AnnieBanannie says:

    So reading exile child, as well as Pete Rollins bullshit blogpost, is making me think.

    I think it’s really important to remember that compassion and empathy, even for the perpetrator, is totally possible and commendable. It in no way precludes accountability, insistence on honesty, and protection of the target.

    We are complex beings, we are capable of loving and caring for people while absolutely setting limits about what kind of behavior we will countenance.

  79. Julie McMahon says:

    Well said Annie. There is nothing I wish more for my children than peace and reconciliation. But, like you said, an admittance of wrongdoing is necessary in that process.

  80. Randy Buist says:

    Anyone want to bet me that there wast not $500,000 spent on legal fees? That’s bogus because there is no way unless she was entirely reckless with that money.

  81. Tim WB says:

    Oh, Randy, aren’t you just so special, perceptive, prescient, and omniscient?
    A true warrior for truth and honesty.

    Ever been sued?
    I’m sure Tony Jones will oblige you if you ask nicely. Or if you say things he doesn’t like.

    I’m quite familiar with a much simpler 5 year civil case, in a different jurisdiction, where the total bill was around 100K. And that case settled before it went to court.

    This one has more motions, complex psychological documentation, and actually went to court multiple times.

    Want to do your sums again?

  82. AnnieBanannie says:

    Randy’s really grasping at straws now.

  83. I find it interesting that people like David Hayward are brave enough and honest enough to let anyone comment on their pages, even if the commenters have a differing perspective (or are just plain divisive). And yet Tony Jones and his friends delete comments and block people unless they are toeing the party line. (Peter Rollins is the latest to be using that trick.) What does that say about the character of the people involved?

  84. Tim WB says:

    Some public figures delete things they don’t like: others’ comments, and even their own posts.
    Or they edit their statements after their release. Often without attribution.

    Some would even delete or edit people, if they could.

    I think it clearly demonstrates not just who has the power, but how they use it.
    Disagreement is not permitted!
    Dissenting views should be suppressed!
    I guess all social movements have their dogmas and taboos.
    Even if they pretend they don’t have any.

    But would they delete or edit Jesus’ words, if they could?
    Many of us have been tempted, from time to time… but these authors have the power to do it, at least in their own minds, and the minds of their worshippers.

  85. It seems pretty cowardly and dishonest to me!

  86. Yasmin says:

    Of course it’s cowardly, Living Liminal! It is and admission that those who do so cannot defend their position, that they know they are wrong and just don’t want to face it. If they HAD a valid argument, they’d post it. There will always be those posters on both sides who are merely abusive, and they should be deleted. That should go without saying. To delete and/or block those with legitimate questions or points, however, is pure cowardice, and an admission that they are right and you cannot refute them. That, too, goes without saying.

  87. Michaela says:

    Just an update, from over at The Wartburg Watch, about what Tony Jones is trying to do to Julie now, silence her and her supporters in the United States and Canada. Dee and Deb at The Wartburg Watch are having NONE of it (the silencing/removing of posts) tactics due to the First Amendment rights. Bill Kinnon said same in Canada.

    “Well, TWW is named in the court order (http://www.scribd.com/doc/265151674/Jones-McMahon-Lawyer-Letter-5-12-15)–not as being in any kind of legal trouble of course, just that they are included in a long list of entities that have been identified by Tony’s attorney. Didn’t mean to imply any action was being taken against TWW.”

    A response:

    It is time to get Tony Jones marked as a vexatious litigant in the State of Minnesota.

    TWW Readers: Let’s write the Minnesota Supreme Court about Tony Jones and ask the court to put a stop to this relentless litigation against Julie.
    http://www.mncourts.gov/?page=550

    Chief Justice Lorie Skjerven Gildea
    Minnesota Supreme Court
    Minnesota Judicial Center
    25 Dr. Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd.
    St. Paul, MN. 55155

  88. Loyd Harp says:

    Julie, thank you for your bravery and courage. I’m so sorry you’ve had to endure even a shred of this. When I heard Tony was re-married (having never known about a divorce), it immediately raised warning flags for me. I’m sorry for the system of ‘Christianity’ that allows this to happen. God be with you.

    Loyd