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9 Responses

  1. Brigitte says:

    Some walk over corpses and one rose from the dead.

  2. Caryn LeMur says:

    The abandonment of being willing to attempt reconciliation – – I have come to believe this is a root cause of situations like your cartoon.

    True example: A young believer was promoted to ‘Pastor’ by a Vineyard, and then given her fully legally separate organization to run.

    During her time at the Vineyard, she attempted to destroy and undermine what we were doing – that is, Bonnie and I meeting with men in the woods, and using our own funds and food to cook for them, and get to know them.

    I asked her, in accordance with Matthew 5, if we could meet privately and at least attempt to reconcile. She replied, “I do not need to meet with you – because we were never friends before. Reconciliation is only for prior friends.”

    Before we laugh at her Biblical understanding… she was politically brilliant. She emotionally overwhelmed the men of the church, ran proud and free, and was ultimately removed as an ‘elder’ by the Pastor… then later, the Pastor was removed by the Board (?)… then in time, she persuaded the Board that she should be able to return to the Vineyard, and use their facilities for her organization.

    I ran into her at a market parking lot. I asked her if she ever reconciled with the Pastor. She replied ‘no, but I reconciled with the Board.’ I told her essentially that she needed to consider the words of Jesus… and we parted…. It was as if she ‘reconciled’ only when needed for political purposes.

    Avoidance is not reconciliation. Erasure is not reconciliation.

    Emotionally overwhelming someone is not reconciliation. Selective posturing for use of facilities is not reconciliation.

    Reconciliation may be unattainable… however, just ‘attempting reconciliation’ is an amazing picture of Jesus in the world…………..

    I believe the world needs to see Jesus… but when they look for him, the world is not blind…

    and when they see the church politics dominating even an attempt at reconciliation, then we are no different than the local Eagles Aerie , Moose Lodge, or Bowling League.

  3. terri jo says:

    Yes Caryn, a Big Ten 4

  4. terri jo says:

    Principles before Personalities, especially personalities with disorders like sociopathy, narcissism…. But often those positions of “high esteem and attention” are beckoning these folks

  5. Caryn LeMur says:

    Agree, Terri Jo, that the stage and spotlight are attractive to certain personalities, or even mental disorders.

    And… they could have gone into theater, as a profession… but I digress.

    Contrast these two articles:

    Turner, named in a lawsuit:

    Driscoll, named in the same lawsuit:

    Which one shows Jesus best?

  6. terri jo says:

    Neither…… And after two decades of soul searching, practicing spiritual principles, faltering, picking up the pieces, making amends, praying, helping, serving, all in and out of formal spiritual and/or religion organizations….. I have learned discernment forgiveness conviction perseverance courage letting it be. This is unfortunate but it doesn’t paint all faith gatherings black for me. It is the Game of Life.

  7. Caryn LeMur says:

    I agree that all faith gatherings cannot be painted ‘black’ due to one church closure.

    The church institution is, imo, filled with humans. They make mistakes. Power corrupts. Misallocation of funds happens. Accountability is practiced. Reconciliation is attempted.

    If the church was perfect in all things, the church would show Jesus-among-us.

    Since the church is not perfect in all things, the church can still fail, and via attempting reconciliation, show the world that Jesus is among still among us – we that fail can still get up, and try to follow his commands.

    Therefore, I think Turner’s response shows Jesus-among-us far better than Driscoll’s response.

    Let us assume that both men stumbled equally concerning their church – for the sake of comparison.

    Here is a quote attributed to Turner: ““In the past two weeks, I have prayed,” Turner wrote. “I have reached out to the plaintiffs directly to communicate my willingness to meet. And I continue to hope that Christ will walk us through this difficult but necessary process in a spirit of reconciliation.”

    Here is a quote attributed to Driscoll: ““Unfortunately, false and malicious allegations continue to be made against me,” Driscoll said in an email to RNS Thursday (March 3). “I’m certain that the most recent examples are without any merit.”

    Here is the standard that came to my mind: ““Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.” [Matthew 5:23-24]

    So, I measure their words against the standard.

    In this case, and based on these quotes, I see Turner showing ‘Jesus-among-us’ much better than Driscoll.

  8. terri jo says:

    I get ya, Caryn…… trying to read too fast…. me and hubby were heading out the door to enjoy some of Kamloops BC beautiful outdoors. And then had yum yum sushi. We are so fortunate, on a few days off, away from work and chores, enjoying good food, love of each other, and thanks to God!