Did James Dobson say shoot transgender people?

"Don't Shoot Transgender People" cartoon by nakedpastor David Hayward

“Don’t Shoot Transgender People” cartoon by nakedpastor David Hayward

Get this cartoon print or original!

So, did James Dobson say shoot transgender people? No, he didn’t come right out and say it, precisely. Read this.

However, if one of his followers shot a transgender person for using a public bathroom of their choice and was taken to court, and at his defense said, “But, my leader told me I should!”, would that make Dobson culpable?

We have to be so careful with what we say. Because we can be held accountable for what we say!

The saying, “Out of the fullness of our hearts the mouth speaks” suggests that Dobson believes we’ve completely lost our moral ground and courage, and because of it transgender people and other weirdos are taking over the earth.

Sad.

SHOP

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42 Responses

  1. Caryn LeMur says:

    The United States culture is changing. We either see wonderful opportunities, or horrible offenses.

    James D. needs to believe that God is bigger than all the cultures that ever existed. And that if God could shine in Rome of the First Century, then God can shine even greater now. (Readers may wish to read Romans chapter 1 for Paul’s partial view of the Roman culture).

    God is greater. God’s love shines on. His plans cannot be thwarted.

    The Spirit, however, can be grieved…. and your cartoon captures that extremely well.

  2. Tom Wilson says:

    Evangelical leaders are all in a panic, because they are hemorrhaging dues paying members, plus they actually believe Hell is a real place where people will spend eternity and that the LGBT community is an abomination for which God has destroyed other peoples. So they are freaking out, because they believe America is going to be judged and they already are losing their financial support so their little personal kingdoms are slowly going bankrupt. People in that hysterical state do not think logically or have much impulse control. I only pray that his remarks do not get someone killed or badly injured.

  3. Scott Amundsen says:

    That man never loses an opportunity to say unconscionable things.

    Insidious bastard.

  4. Micki says:

    The sin to be repented is, of course, unconsciousness. Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves. The acceptance of oneself is the essence of the whole moral problem and the epitome of a whole outlook on life. That I feed the hungry, that I forgive an insult, that I love my enemy in the name of Christ — all these are undoubtedly great virtues. What I do unto the least of my brethren, that I do unto Christ. But what if I should discover that the least among them all, the poorest of all the beggars, the most impudent of all the offenders, the very enemy himself — that these are within me, and that I myself stand in need of the alms of my own kindness — that I myself am the enemy who must be loved — what then? As a rule, the Christian’s attitude is then reversed; there is no longer any question of love or long-suffering; we say to the brother within us “Raca,” and condemn and rage against ourselves. We hide it from the world; we refuse to admit ever having met this least among the lowly in ourselves. James Dobson is NOT battling any devils or demons other than those that are within his own psyche. They are projections of his own unconscious transgender issues. And rather than facing those and reckoning with those on an inner level, he is using religion to cast stones, just like ISIS, just like his old pal Ted Haggard (pastor of New Life megachurch in Colorado Springs) did, until, of course, Ted was caught doing meth with a gay hooker in Denver. What a brood of vipers, washing the outside of the cup while the inside is filthy. People can make the Bible say anything they want it to say, we all know that. And even an entry level look into Christian apologetics reveals the two-edged sword of the theological debate between Law and Grace. Christ was not unclear that Law brings death, but Grace brings life, and healing. Christianity can be used as a wedge to further the divide between the Ego and the Unconscious. And there is a long-standing tradition of Christians using their religion to build a wall around their Ego to protect it from their own unconscious content. In a very real sense, they are fighting with their own shadow, making it into devils and demons, thus increasing their own internal polarization. But such a path is not the way towards healing and wholeness. If you want to be free of your demons, you must become willing to surrender your angels, for they are just the two sides of a polarized psychic complex. The way forward is to find the courage to turn and look upon your shadow with compassion, to welcome all the beggars in and offer them a seat at the table, and to listen to those unsavory parts of ourselves in love, for they have a great deal to teach us, and hold our helming in their arms, if we can accept it.

  5. Headless Unicorn Guy says:

    “Remember James Dobson? Did a lot of good things before fear of homosexuals drove him over a cliff with his constituency in the car.”
    — from an old Internet Monk thread about Dobson getting in the headlines

  6. Caryn LeMur says:

    Headless: I love that quote!

  7. Brigitte says:

    How about making this your headline?

    http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/woman-arrested-in-arson-attempt-on-montreal-clinic-thats-canadas-only-place-for-gender-reassignment-surgery

    “A B.C. woman has been arrested for carrying out an arson attack on the Montreal surgical clinic that is the only place in Canada providing the most complex forms of gender reassignment surgery.

    Jayne Ellen Heideck, 42, was detained Monday by RCMP officers in Kelowna, B.C., and is being returned to Montreal.

    She will face charges stemming from a fire in early May at the Centre métropolitain de chirurgie in Montreal.

    The blaze started when an assailant burst through a backdoor opened by a staff member and ran up into a surgical suite with an incendiary device. Sprinklers dowsed the flames before firefighters arrived, but the blaze still caused $700,000 in damage.

    Wendy Longlade for the National Post
    Wendy Longlade for the National PostDr. Pierre Brassard performs a sex reassignment operation — or a gender confirming procedure — at his Montreal clinic in a file photo.
    Police were considered the possibility the attack was a hate crime, because of the clinic’s specialty in gender reassignment surgery (or gender affirming surgery, as is the preferred term) as well as other plastic and bariatric procedures. While a trans person might be able to get cosmetic or upper body surgeries elsewhere in Canada, the private Montreal clinic is the only one in the country that performs the most complicated genital surgeries.

    After Heideck’s arrest, police confirm…”

  8. Brigitte says:

    “Jayne was extremely happy to have had the surgery when I picked her up from the airport afterwards,” Oger said, adding that was a feeling that continued for “some time afterward.”

    She was a happy, easy-going person with all the same struggles that trans persons have.
    Heideck has family in Nanaimo, B.C., Oger said, adding she last spoke with her days before her arrest.

    In the years before and immediately after the procedure, Oger said Heideck was a “nice, well-meaning person” and a dedicated cyclist who made her living fixing bikes in Vancouver.

    “She was a happy, easy-going person with all the same struggles that trans persons have.”

    Related
    Arson ‘sounds a lot like anti-abortion radicals’: Canada’s only sex-reassignment clinic under siege
    Canada’s only clinic providing sex reassignment surgeries suffers $700,000 in damages in arson attempt
    But Facebook posts from Heideck’s account and by self-professed friends suggest she started to spiral into mental illness.

    It has not been proved that Heideck committed the violent act, but Oger said, if she did, “Even when somebody has every good excuse, there is not justification for the violence this could have been.”

    No one was injured in the fire but there were staff and patients in the building.

  9. Brigitte says:

    The way I read it, Jayne just had her penis removed and after some time she went back to the clinic to torch it.–Strong feelings all the way around.

  10. Caryn LeMur says:

    It may be a hate crime. It may be mental disturbance. Sad story all the way around. I hope insurance covers this, or a millionaire or two chip in to rebuild the clinic. We should not let hatred nor mental disorders destroy medical treatments.

    It is a sad truth that many trans-people have a cluster of mental disorders. Not all.

    And so, the hormones and surgeries are great for treating gender identity dysphoria. That said, it will not treat manic behavior, OCD, bi-polar, PTSD, and on and on.

    My own PTSD came rolling back into my life in my late 30’s, and then I seemed to get back to normal. Then later, transsexualism went into ‘onset’ (I have no better term) and became too strong to ignore. And the PTSD came back in a strange secondary role. I dealt with both at the same time. Not fun.

    And the PTSD seems to ‘visit’ still, on occasion.

    So, again, one continuum of treatments, as needed, for GID – – and I thank God for teaching us that area of medicine — and other treatments for other mental disorders.

    It appears that Jayne did not address her full situation. How very sad. 🙁

  11. Brigitte says:

    Caryn, along the way I had hoped that you would discribe the feelings that add up to this disphoria that causes people to pursue such drastic change.

    Also, I think, it needs to be seen that there is a whole community of “regretters”. The rate of post-transition, post-surgery disappointment/dispair/regret/suicide is significant and need not entirely be blamed on the up-tightness of traditional society/Christianity, but would also seem to be inherent in the contradictions of the situation.

    Also, if Jayne is mentally not stable should she really have been a candidate for such radical steps as she was allowed to undertake. Some have recently indicated that this is a new make-work program for clinics, as well as insurance fraud. Who has Jayne’s best interests at heart?

  12. Caryn LeMur says:

    Yes, I was able to find 6 people on the Internet that actually regret transitioning to the opposite sex. Since these case studies were gathered by someone that is very anti-transsexual, I suppose it was the best he could do.

    That is why the national health organizations (I know of) do the real life test (RLT), for a minimum of a year. This allows reversal to be much easier. That is why the approach is done step by step ( facial hair removal is so painful, I think that alone stops some born-men from living as women… lol.)

    You need to be mentally stable to undergo any step on this journey. Hence, a large number of sessions with a LCSW or PhD are normally mandated by the different national organizations.

    Remember, Brigitte, the first steps on this journey can be just talk-therapy. And, if that is sufficient, then the client goes no farther. The next step is normally cross-dressing like the opposite sex a few days a month. Later, after clearance, cross-gender hormones may be used. We should never focus on ‘genital surgery’ – rather, we focus a client on managing the extreme dysphoria. Surgery is not a goal.

    However, back to one of your points about the small community that goes through all the steps, sees all the medical and psychological professionals, and then determines that they desire genital surgery. They have the surgery. They regret it. They reverse.

    Nilegård University In Eslöv, Sweden estimates 158,000 surgeries to the opposite sex have been conducted.

    An old ’30 year retrospective study’ (of which I do not have the copy), as I recall, discussed a slightly less than 1% reversal rate for those that had genital surgery.

    Six regrets to even 1% out of 158,000 is significant. Statistically, well… ok… it is not significant. It is a 99% success rate. However, anyone that regrets a major surgery is significant in my book.

    I offer that we should not drag Christianity into a certifiable mental disorder, for which few cures exist. Indeed, there is no cure… rather, the management of the extreme dysphoria is what matters.

    Christianity/prayer/fasting/casting out demons is of little use when discussing bi-polar, OCD, schizophrenia, and a dozen others. The Bible is about a philosophical journey with spiritual statements along the way… it has next to nothing to say about managing what we call certifiable mental disorders.

    And yes, I would like to see a community for that 1% that reverses. They surely need a ton of support.

    But… it is hard to argue with a 99% success rate.

  13. Brigitte says:

    A 99% “success rate” is not what I find when I start googling the matter. Sorry, Caryn, it sounds like the party line to me. Let everyone do their own internet search.

    It also makes me worry that regretters are being marginalized in this current climate of correctness.

    And in this current climate of correctness, someone like Dobson gets vilified for stating the obvious.

    We should therefore pay attention to who actually does violence to whom, actual, mental, social pressure. These are not matters of theory but things that go on.

    As a woman, I feel insulted to the core, that changes like those undertaken in transitions, that dressing in heels and dresses, and so on, should stand for someone being a woman. An individual who thinks that this sort of thing will make him a woman, will find out that this can’t be it. And will have a pretty sizeable chance of regretting. You can flog the whole world into calling you “she”, and that will not necessarily be so. And now, every woman in the land is supposed to be subjected to any male in any bathroom, locker room, etc. This just goes to show more, how the community does not know what it means to be a woman, and be so vulnerable.

    This is not to put down people’s potential “disphoria”, or very real distress. I cannot even imagine what kind of distress this needs to be. This is not to disrespect Caryn, or any other person. I am just pointing out the distress of some other groups which is also valid.

    If someone tried here to see the other side of the coin, this stuff would not have to be said, but there seems to be a climate of the other guys are evil, and that’s just that.

  14. Seriously Brigette? “Dobson gets vilified for stating the obvious”??

  15. Brigitte says:

    Seriously, David, this is your reply.

  16. Caryn LeMur says:

    As my son says, “Never study the doctrine of people. Rather, study the people who are the result of that doctrine. Do they show the Christ, or not?”

  17. Scott says:

    Brigitte: How simple it must be. How easy, even enjoyable, to sit on one’s high horse and pass judgment on people about whom one knows nothing.

    I don’t know where you are getting your “information,” but I do know this: I am a fifty-three-year-old, cisgender Gay man with a large circle of friends from all walks of life. Straight, Gay, Transgender, all colors and ethnic backgrounds. And unlike you I do not pretend to know what is going on inside the heads of any of my friends or acquaintances unless they choose to share it with me.

    I find it fascinating that there are so many out there like you who think they can make judgment calls with the scantiest of evidence.

  18. Brigitte says:

    Throwing some stones, Scott? What judgement call was made? Except your judging me on a high horse. Your daily dose of self-righteousness has been indulged in? You have not made any point regarding the points raised.

  19. Scott Amundsen says:

    Hrm. Sounds to me like I struck a nerve.

    Have a nice life, sweetie.

  20. Yes it is. I’m surprised you would claim that Dobson is “stating the obvious”! In other words, that he’s right! When I believe he’s not only wrong (which is my opinion), but dangerously close to inciting violence against transgender people (which I think is not my opinion but fact).

    And Scott… calling a woman “sweetie” is dismissive, condescending, and sexist.

  21. Scott Amundsen says:

    Just so you know, I use that term on both sexes equally.

  22. Caryn LeMur says:

    Because I write here especially for my adult children, who are on various philosophical journeys, and who read these cartoons and comments – for their sake – I wish to point out that I am old enough to have heard Brigitte’s arguments years before.

    I will change only a few words of her argument:

    “As a AMERICAN, I feel insulted to the core, that changes like those undertaken in BECOMMING A CITIZEN, that dressing LIKE AN AMERICAN, and so on, should stand for A MEXICAN being an AMERICAN. An individual who thinks that this sort of thing will make him an AMERICAN, will find out that this can’t be it. And will have a pretty sizeable chance of regretting. You can flog the whole world into calling you “AMERICAN”, and that will not necessarily be so. And now, every PERSON in the land is supposed to be subjected to any MEXICAN in any bathroom, locker room, etc. This just goes to show more, how the community does not know what it means to be an AMERICAN, and be so vulnerable.”

    Yes, I have heard this all before… far too many times… even from those that say they are Christians.

    The right to transition, from German to Canadian, from Mexican to American, from female to male, from Christian to Jew,… truly does bring out the best and the worst in us.

    The basic argument is this, “A former can never really be a , because you have to be born a to be a .”

    I’ve heard that argument among my American friends towards the Mexicans, the Lao, the Vietnamese, and on and on. I’ve heard it from Jews to the recently converted Jew – “you have to be born a Jew to really be one”. I hear it now from a Lutheran viewpoint by Brigitte – you have to be born a man to be a man, no one can transition to be a man (or vice-versa).

    The argument is useless in reality. We end up debating ‘what is a real Jew?’ or ‘What is a real man?’ or ‘What is a real American?’

    There is no such thing as a ‘real’ man, ‘real’ woman, ‘real’ Canadian, or ‘real’ American. Even genetically, the differences are profound.

    I say to everyone that is reading: Yes, you are insulted to the core. Get over it. The right to transition is basic to humanity.

    [Brigitte, try to remember how insulted and un-Christlike some Canadian was to you, when you (a German) arrived. Or, perhaps you were lucky… and everyone welcomed you with open arms.]

    There are times when indeed, we feel threatened by the new arrivals. We do feel vulnerable. They are different than us. We need to get over it.

    We need to see that Jesus selected a “Samaritan” as the hero of the Parable of the Good Samaritan — that is the equivalent of a married male-to-female transsexual in our modern world. Wrong genetics; wrong choices; wrong marriage; wrong religion. … and the actions mattered far more than the doctrinal correct person.

    The actions moved the heart of Jesus, the son of God… the doctrine mattered zero, naught, nada.

    We need to argue about how to show love, gentleness, kindness, and assistance to those that transition from one culture to another, one sex to another, one religion to another…..

    Or maybe we need to admit our philosophy and/or religion really does not give a damn about being like Jesus.

    Maybe we need to admit that we really want to walk on the other side.

  23. Caryn LeMur says:

    The basic argument is this, “A former can never really be a , because you have to be born a to be a .”

    Should have printed out as the following:

    The basic argument is this, “A former X can never really be a Y , because you have to be born a Y to be a Y .”

  24. Scott Amundsen says:

    Just for the sake of clarity, on the charge of sexism I plead Not Guilty on the grounds already stated. As for condescending and dismissive, I plead Guilty As Charged because condescension and dismissal was exactly what I intended. Sue me if you don’t like it.

  25. Brigitte says:

    Caryn, I have been saving a few news stories, in my daily cursory reading of various news, to possibly help you and others see some things that womanhood entails, for better and for worse, that stare us into the face. Things that seem self-evident to me. Shoes and dress and so on is so superficial, as to be meaningless.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-34583055

    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36398973

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-36357630

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-36359921

    http://www.bbc.com/news/health-36361326

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27844094

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36275162

    http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/marni-soupcoff-mixed-feelings-on-miss-usa

    http://www.bbc.com/news/health-36444404

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/07/us/outrage-in-stanford-rape-case-over-dueling-statements-of-victim-and-attackers-father.html

    http://thefederalist.com/2016/06/03/feminists-love-the-idea-of-women-but-hate-real-women/

    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36434191

    http://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/article78706432.html

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/may/18/charlotte-observer-girls-must-try-overcoming-disco/

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/435638/transgender-identity-biology-gender-social-construct-anatomy-binary

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/435752/most-heartbreaking-post-day-transgender-edition

    http://www.cruxnow.com/church/2016/05/16/beware-of-trans-movement-as-patriarchy-in-disguise/

    http://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2016/may/28/we-dont-know-enough-about-menstruation-and-girls-are-paying-a-price

    http://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-36277031

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J7_TKgw1To

    http://lindsayleighbentley.com/2014/06/30/i-am-ryland-the-story-of-a-male-identifying-little-girl-who-didnt-transition/

    http://dennismichaellynch.com/facebook-tries-to-censor-mom-for-making-post-about-transgenders/

    http://lutheranreformation.org/theology/christian-read-watch-news/

    Et cetera.

    I am out of time.

  26. Brigitte says:

    Did I get blocked?

  27. You haven’t been blocked Brigitte.

  28. Ah! Actually, your last comment, which is full of links, is almost always a sign of spam. So it was in the spam filter. So be advised… if your comment is full of links it can be taken as spammy.

  29. Brigitte says:

    Ah ya, if you are not going to post it, just send it back to me, so I have the links in one place. Thanks.

  30. Brigitte says:

    Oops, sorry, there it is…

  31. Brigitte says:

    It’s gone. We’ll have to stay with Caryn’s assertion that changing a man into a woman is like changing a Mexican into an American.

  32. Brigitte says:

    It’s back. What the heck. The computer is weird.

  33. Caryn LeMur says:

    Again, the argument that we should be having is how best to show Jesus towards outsiders that wish to become accepted…. especially when they wish to become accepted in a church setting.

    I abhor church settings — that is true. They normally benefit only a few that fit the mold.

    However, by way of example, perhaps a man that was formerly a woman may wish to attend a Lutheran church.

    I studied the Lutheran position on transsexualism. It is exclusionary and discipline oriented. It does protect the Lutherans from the world, and from those with GID. It will remove the man (in this example) from fellowship. In my book, it has no compassion.

    And so, in my opinion, the Lutheran position does not show Jesus.

    It hides the open arms of the Jesus I know.

    Brigitte: What do you think should be changed?

  34. Brigitte says:

    Caryn, I believe last you asserted that a male to female change is the same as a Mexican to American change. I believe you asserted that I had no right to be offended by the assertion that superficial changes could even remotely acquaint someone with what it means to be a woman. I believe you also observed that the “dysphoria” has nothing to do with faith matters. Now you have introduced a Lutheran position on the matter to which we have no link and from which we have no quote to discuss in sensible fashion.

  35. Brigitte says:

    You have also asserted a 99% percent success rate in transitions which is obviously a falsehood, as evidenced by many testimonials, a high suicide rate, high HIV-AIDS infection rate, and many murders and other violence. Something tells me that neither followers of James Dobson, nor Luther, are perpetrating them.

    Meanwhile, we suffer the activism that tries to foist the whole thing onto the general public without considering the best interests of women and children, or barely allowing them to say anything about it. You really don’t need to bring Jesus into it. He forgives but he also talks about millstones around necks. What matters to Jesus is the fate of the more vulnerable. A transsexual may very well be a very vulnerable person, whom I want to embrace, but I am not going to start telling lies about the whole problem and become a re-educator of the benighted conservative nuclear family or traditional church position and teaching. Things are more complicated than calling your opponent “exclusionary” and “disciplinary”.

  36. Scott Amundsen says:

    Caryn: I am not quite sure how the Lutheran Church got dragged into this, but I grew up ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) and the position of the church as you described it sounded more like LCMS (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod), which is much more conservative than ELCA.

    I am now a member of a United Methodist Church Reconciling Congregation, so it’s been a while but I heard about three years ago that ELCA had become open and affirming of LGBT persons even to the ordination of clergy.

    I’d just like some clarification because there is more than one Lutheran Synod.

  37. Caryn LeMur says:

    Thank you, Scott. I stand corrected.

    I studied the conservative Lutheran viewpoints, based on Brigitte’s approach.

    You, and the more open Lutheran groups, have my apology.

  38. Brigitte says:

    You can relax, Scott. You and Caryn are all good.

  39. Scott Amundsen says:

    Caryn: No apology necessary. I myself was unclear about the facts since ELCA only became open and affirming after I left for the UMC. The chasm between LCMS and ELCA, sadly, has only widened since the decision for inclusiveness.

    Brigitte: Thanks, but I already knew that and I do not require your dubious blessing to know what I know about the church I grew up in.

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