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Tony Jones on Mark Driscoll: What came first, the thug or the theology?
This drawing is inspired by the Ouroboros Snake... of the snake eating its own tail.
What came first? The chicken or the egg? What came first? The thug or the theology? I read Tony Jones' thoughts on Mark Driscoll.
Jones has always admired Driscoll, maybe envies him a little, wants the best for him, believes he can be redeemed, and suggests that things can be restored.
What I found most interesting though is that Jones believes the problem with Driscoll is theological.
- He titles his post is "Thoughts about Mark Driscoll"
- He talks about the "heady" days of publishing and speaking.
- He dismisses his disturbing personality traits by his use of the word "sure".
- He says it isn't a moral issue (evil) but that he is passionate.
- He says more than once that Driscoll is "extremely smart" or "brilliant".
- He suggests that he will "see" (as in "think"?) his way out of this.
- He writes that Driscoll has just embraced a toxic version of theology.
- He hopes that Driscoll will turn away from this toxic theology.
- He concludes therefore that Driscoll is not the problem, but his theology.
But my question is‚ What came first? The thug or the theology?
That is, did Driscoll become the focus of concern because of his theology? Or was it because of his behavior?
I'm concerned that Jones' post reflects the refusal of the church to understand spiritual abuse. It neglects the pathology of its abusive leaders. I don't think this is being fair to the victims or the perpetrators of spiritual abuse. People are victims of not just a bad theology, but a pathological cruelty.
I don't think Driscoll's theology made this happen. Driscoll "embraced" his toxic version of theology because it aligned with his moral compass. It fit his personality. It worked for him to achieve his goals. Then it manifested the worst in him. Then he continued to develop his toxic theology in order to make more room for his pathological behavior. Mars Hill Church too.
Jones' sentence, "It could have happened to any of us." is true, because I believe we all participate in this dynamic. Theology is our creation. It is a reflection of our drives and desires.
Then, not satisfied to only be the product of our drives and desires, it also becomes the producer of them. Theology is a vicious cycle of our desperate need to understand and control our universe.
Step into this cycle at any point and you can see that we are both the root and fruit of our theology and pathology.
And yes, it spins out of control by manifesting itself in toxic, controlling, and abusive behavior. Nothing can be done about bad theology because of free thought and speech.
But we can do something when this manifests itself in bad behavior. Cruel theology is a nuisance. Cruel behavior is unacceptable.
When Driscoll thinks bully to his people, we can say please stop. But when he actually bullies people, we can step in and say you will stop now!
I don't think this is a theological issue. I think it is a pathological one. Not just for Driscoll and Jones, but for the entire church.
If we would be healed, our theology would take care of itself.
1080 comments
Thank you, Todd. I accept with my whole “crazy” heart your apology. Sincerely, I thank you.
Off line I received a warm and heart felt apology a few weeks ago actually from Andrew Jones the Tall Skinny Kiwi…I thank him too. The real deal!
Truly healing and I feel God’s work is being done here, and now, and virtually Colina. Do you have a problem with that?!
Every single word I have shared is the truth. It is my Emergent Cult Story. I am somewhat creative but how can you even make some of this junk up? You couldn’t. Isn’t calling out a person in leadership being the body? And, Colina, this is a forum for those who have experienced abuses within the church….what aren’t you c-o-m-p-r-e-h-e-n-d-i-n-g? I know this tactic ALL too well….smoke and mirrors folks, smoke and mirrors….nothing to see here…..just a “messy divorce.” Look away this is private….look away. But it’s not!!!
It’s Brian McLaren, Brad Cecil, Danielle Shroyer, Doug Pagitt and Mike King involved in a really awful scheme and they need to act like the Pastors that they are, and publicly apologize. They had no qualm publicly launching a “crazy campaign.” They need to put their big boy (and girl) panties on, and address this piece of their past. Again, I warmly welcome any apology. I was wronged and this is an opportunity to make is right.
Catching up on everything now, from the past two days. +1000000 to David and +1000000 to Julie, too. Thank you both for your courage and integrity, and you’re awesome, Julie.
Another reason why this conversation is important, and how what Julie is doing (speaking her story) is bringing good into the world, is that it is giving others on this thread the courage to tell THEIR stories. Like Annie just did, and a few others upthread. Openness begets more openness.
And Todd … you are awesome. That was encouraging to see!
Colina – What David said is true – you keep trying to control the narrative by pulling the conversation back to it being about a ‘divorce’, when nobody really talked about that at all until you initially brought it up, then David addressed it (everyone else ignored it because obviously they weren’t interested in the ‘sordid details’), and you again directed the conversation (attempted to direct it) right BACK to an over simplification of it being about the divorce between two people!
For me, this is about allowing a victim to have a voice. I honestly have no earthly idea how a person would be able to overlook statements such as, “He threw me down and pulled my shoulder out of socket”, “They took away my kids for 10 hours and I didn’t know where they were”, “They tried to commit me to a mental institution without my involvement” (all paraphrased) … I have no EARTHLY idea how you would be able to overlook these and many other statements with a blithe, “Oh, well, everyone has their truth! There are two sides to the same story!!”
So when I told you to stick your platitudes where the sun don’t shine, what I was saying was that I reject your shamy concern trolling and refuse to allow you to control this narrative … like you tried to control MY statement by calling it ‘silencing’ (the very word we’ve all been using to accuse TJ’s EV crowd … very clever), and you tried to control JULIE’S story by diminishing it to “well there are two sides”, and how you tried to control this entire conversation by saying what we think about it isn’t important or relevant unless we’re having face-to-face convos (and yet you’re commenting here? Because it’s ok for you to speak but not everyone else?) … which is, by the way, the EXACT tactic currently in use by Tony and Doug against David.
I’ll end by saying that I’m honestly open to real conversation with you here, if you acknowledge the abuse Tony perpetrated against Julie. Until then, I will have to believe that you’ve got skin in the game somewhere (pun intended).