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Tony Jones on Mark Driscoll: What came first, the thug or the theology?
This drawing is inspired by the Ouroboros Snake... of the snake eating its own tail.
What came first? The chicken or the egg? What came first? The thug or the theology? I read Tony Jones' thoughts on Mark Driscoll.
Jones has always admired Driscoll, maybe envies him a little, wants the best for him, believes he can be redeemed, and suggests that things can be restored.
What I found most interesting though is that Jones believes the problem with Driscoll is theological.
- He titles his post is "Thoughts about Mark Driscoll"
- He talks about the "heady" days of publishing and speaking.
- He dismisses his disturbing personality traits by his use of the word "sure".
- He says it isn't a moral issue (evil) but that he is passionate.
- He says more than once that Driscoll is "extremely smart" or "brilliant".
- He suggests that he will "see" (as in "think"?) his way out of this.
- He writes that Driscoll has just embraced a toxic version of theology.
- He hopes that Driscoll will turn away from this toxic theology.
- He concludes therefore that Driscoll is not the problem, but his theology.
But my question is‚ What came first? The thug or the theology?
That is, did Driscoll become the focus of concern because of his theology? Or was it because of his behavior?
I'm concerned that Jones' post reflects the refusal of the church to understand spiritual abuse. It neglects the pathology of its abusive leaders. I don't think this is being fair to the victims or the perpetrators of spiritual abuse. People are victims of not just a bad theology, but a pathological cruelty.
I don't think Driscoll's theology made this happen. Driscoll "embraced" his toxic version of theology because it aligned with his moral compass. It fit his personality. It worked for him to achieve his goals. Then it manifested the worst in him. Then he continued to develop his toxic theology in order to make more room for his pathological behavior. Mars Hill Church too.
Jones' sentence, "It could have happened to any of us." is true, because I believe we all participate in this dynamic. Theology is our creation. It is a reflection of our drives and desires.
Then, not satisfied to only be the product of our drives and desires, it also becomes the producer of them. Theology is a vicious cycle of our desperate need to understand and control our universe.
Step into this cycle at any point and you can see that we are both the root and fruit of our theology and pathology.
And yes, it spins out of control by manifesting itself in toxic, controlling, and abusive behavior. Nothing can be done about bad theology because of free thought and speech.
But we can do something when this manifests itself in bad behavior. Cruel theology is a nuisance. Cruel behavior is unacceptable.
When Driscoll thinks bully to his people, we can say please stop. But when he actually bullies people, we can step in and say you will stop now!
I don't think this is a theological issue. I think it is a pathological one. Not just for Driscoll and Jones, but for the entire church.
If we would be healed, our theology would take care of itself.
1080 comments
From what it seems, the shamers are taking to PRIVATE means to be on the offensive/defensive. This is ridiculous. Are these people so afraid of having their egos shattered by a SINGLE PERSON speaking their words?
Ladies and gentlemen, the people who hide from Julie (and attack David because of Julie’s words) are the thugs that feed the theology and twist it. These are the people who eat the twisted theology, shit it out, and re-eat the same shit, as it did not change by any means in the process of digesting – Hell, there’s no digestion, just blind acceptance, swallowing, and shitting back out of this hateful theology.
During the Christianity 21 event where there was a PR effort by Emergent pig males to appear pro-feminist all the while a very interesting and pig-like drama occurred behind the scenes. The event got changed from its original venue to the same location as where my son attends preschool. I arrived at pick up time to all of these Emergent people milling about and who several were given marching orders to tell me to, “Leave! Now” and “What are you doing here?!” Some person ran after me and said, “I know who you are and you have been asked to leave.” Even the police were called! Doug lunged at me and grabbed me forcibly by the arm and said, “Leave!! You are not welcome here.” I said, “I am here to pick up Aidan you FREAK!” He was quite literally foaming at the mouth and said, “Where is Aidan?! Show me Aidan right now?!” Doug then followed me like a rabid lunatic all the way through the church, and down the stairs, and down another long hallway to my child’s classroom. He said, “Oh.” when he saw Aidan coming running towards me, and then he turned and left. Yes! These things need to be aired out. It is abuse of power by narcissist in leadership. Emergent people then spread a rumor and lies that I showed up at Christianity 21 to “make a scene” and “I’m crazy.” No, assholes…I came to my kids preschool to pick him up. How interesting out of all of the venues available in Minneapolis that the place where my son attends preschool was the one chosen by he whom shall not be named. A set up? I think so.
Even more telling, this: “Take up your voice and sound your barbaric yawps as you wish… good on you… but for the love of God (literally) do you really have to do it by simplistically demanding a new online divorce trial? Do you truly think this immense pain is going to be redeemed or healed within the comments section of this blog? Egad.”
Barbaric yawps? Shaming. Going all “good on you” when someone sees the need to speak out about bullying theology in action? Shaming. Oversimplifying a complex issue into an “online divorce trial”? Shaming. Telling someone that releasing their pain in public like this and feeling as if NakedPastor/The Lasting Supper is not the proper place to discuss anything human?
You guessed it. SHAMING.
Wow. I am thrilled to see this discussion take place and Julie…plain and simple…you rock!!
I have no dog in this fight other than the same overwhelming urge to confront the abusers and seek an end to spiritual manipulation and abuse. But I do have one comment/clarification to make concerning the polyamorous/“spiritual wife” bullshit. Whatever some may think of poly, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with cheating, abandoning and abusing one spouse in favor of another. Tony, and any who would defend his style of emotional and spiritual abuse and manipulation slander both Christians and polyamorous people. (Which can sometimes be one and the same)
Carry on. ;-)
So, Colina, if I am to understand you correctly, I should not show love or compassion to a woman who is obviously trying to overcome great pain because she had the Furtickian like audacity to publicly discuss it? You must have missed the parts about shunning, shaming and obfuscation. I do not have to pick a side in order to support someone in their pain.
Tony’s comments led me to believe he is so far above this nonsense that he doesn’t need kind words of support from anyone especially from me, a lowly woman who is already legally and spiritually married to, get this, THE SAME MAN. :)