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Tony Jones on Mark Driscoll: What came first, the thug or the theology?
This drawing is inspired by the Ouroboros Snake... of the snake eating its own tail.
What came first? The chicken or the egg? What came first? The thug or the theology? I read Tony Jones' thoughts on Mark Driscoll.
Jones has always admired Driscoll, maybe envies him a little, wants the best for him, believes he can be redeemed, and suggests that things can be restored.
What I found most interesting though is that Jones believes the problem with Driscoll is theological.
- He titles his post is "Thoughts about Mark Driscoll"
- He talks about the "heady" days of publishing and speaking.
- He dismisses his disturbing personality traits by his use of the word "sure".
- He says it isn't a moral issue (evil) but that he is passionate.
- He says more than once that Driscoll is "extremely smart" or "brilliant".
- He suggests that he will "see" (as in "think"?) his way out of this.
- He writes that Driscoll has just embraced a toxic version of theology.
- He hopes that Driscoll will turn away from this toxic theology.
- He concludes therefore that Driscoll is not the problem, but his theology.
But my question is‚ What came first? The thug or the theology?
That is, did Driscoll become the focus of concern because of his theology? Or was it because of his behavior?
I'm concerned that Jones' post reflects the refusal of the church to understand spiritual abuse. It neglects the pathology of its abusive leaders. I don't think this is being fair to the victims or the perpetrators of spiritual abuse. People are victims of not just a bad theology, but a pathological cruelty.
I don't think Driscoll's theology made this happen. Driscoll "embraced" his toxic version of theology because it aligned with his moral compass. It fit his personality. It worked for him to achieve his goals. Then it manifested the worst in him. Then he continued to develop his toxic theology in order to make more room for his pathological behavior. Mars Hill Church too.
Jones' sentence, "It could have happened to any of us." is true, because I believe we all participate in this dynamic. Theology is our creation. It is a reflection of our drives and desires.
Then, not satisfied to only be the product of our drives and desires, it also becomes the producer of them. Theology is a vicious cycle of our desperate need to understand and control our universe.
Step into this cycle at any point and you can see that we are both the root and fruit of our theology and pathology.
And yes, it spins out of control by manifesting itself in toxic, controlling, and abusive behavior. Nothing can be done about bad theology because of free thought and speech.
But we can do something when this manifests itself in bad behavior. Cruel theology is a nuisance. Cruel behavior is unacceptable.
When Driscoll thinks bully to his people, we can say please stop. But when he actually bullies people, we can step in and say you will stop now!
I don't think this is a theological issue. I think it is a pathological one. Not just for Driscoll and Jones, but for the entire church.
If we would be healed, our theology would take care of itself.
1080 comments
I’ve lurked and watched this conversation progress … one nitpicky thing I wanted to point out:
I think your statement “Nothing can be done about bad theology because of free thought and speech.” is absolutely troubling.
Free speech can only be abridged by government action. If you proposed legislation to outlaw a particular theology, I would agree with you. There are things you can do:
Proponents of the theology have the right to say/write/think/preach whatever they believe (some limits such as regarding political speech and incitement to violence notwithstanding), they do not have the right to an audience or a platform.
In the face of troublesome theology and those who espouse it, ordinary folks can:
- Speak out informally (like you and many are doing here)
- Boycott individual works, authors or even publishers
- Organize and protest
- Offer support FIRST to those who have suffered the abuse that stemmed from or was abetted by troublesome theology (whether it be formal volunteering, donating money or goods or even just validating that a victim is not crazy, not sinful and is a worth human being and that their abuser was in the wrong. Stop forcing victims into a theologically prescribed healing regimen.
- Call out victim discrediting, blaming and shaming (i.e. “You didn’t pray hard enough.” or “Are you sure, he doesn’t seem that bad to me.”) Hear their stories and really listen. Don’t shut them down when it feels uncomfortable for you. It’s not about you.
- Stop forcing forgiveness for the abuser the only avenue toward healing (i.e. I don’t care if Mark Driscoll never repents. I care about getting people away from his abuse and helping them heal in whatever way is right for them [which may not have anything to do with religion of any sort]. Mark Driscoll can look out for himself).
YES! I was a fundamentalist minister for 20 years until the weight of what it was doing to me and others became too much to bear.
Losing my faith and my profession led to losing relationships, marriage, etc but it was the necessary steps to leaving behind the shame, guilt and arrogance that comes from such a position.
I’ve found much deeper friendships since leaving fundamentalism behind.
thank you! danica and scott, I have met some really incredible people through my adventures with a cult and narcissist…from the most unlikely places. THEY are to me the body of goodness. that’s my religion….just don’t be an asshole. be honest, vulnerable and transparent. say sorry. admit fault. forgive and be kind. here’s another gem from our family psychologist who coaches us on how to cope with the NPD in our lives,
“Healthy relationships require mentally healthy people, and they always have a mechanism for repair.”
when people like this leave scorched earth behind, whether it be a church, business or whatever….congregations in ashes, there is always mental illness lurking underneath. And, I would say most likely NPD. because they CAN NOT be wrong. it is far too crushing to their fragile egos to admit imperfection, so if you are not with them, you are taken out.
Brene Brown TED talk on vulnerability and perfection may have saved some of these disasters through history, but alas, they only listen to themselves because there is no one more brilliant than they. barf!
Holy Crap. Julie is my new hero. Thank you for sharing your story. Peace to you.
^^ Woah. Word.