Tony Jones on Mark Driscoll: What came first, the thug or the theology?

I’m still shaking my head at this whole thread… “Spiritual wife?” Really? I regret ever approvingly quoting anything that Tony Jones has ever written. Dude has about as much credibility as Rob Ford with me now. Hey Tony, can I relieve myself on your lawn, me and my friends have discerned that it is my spiritual toilet.

Whew! What a week it’s been in the comments here. I’ve stayed out of it since my apology for calling Julie names several years ago; several things that have unfolded since have prompted me to comment again.
First, replies to a couple of specific individuals, and then a more general reflection:
@Still Cynical: You know what makes ME cynical? People taking pot shots at others while hiding behind pseudonyms. Care to reveal yourself?

In any event…referring to https://nakedpastor.ehermitsinc.com/2014/09/tony-jones-on-mark-driscoll-what-came-first-the-thug-or-the-theology/#comment-121016 this comment , I see where you’re coming from with the “qualifications, passive aggressive cattiness” quip. Thing is, that was all directed at Bill K., not Julie. He and I are handling our differences offline – where I prefer to handle volatile matters if at all possible – and we’re making some slow-but-steady progress.
So in the interests of making sure my apology to Julie as clean as I meant it, here it is with the Bill K. snark edited out:

@Julie: “Hi Julie – even though I thought this was private between the two of us, I now see that my comments (part of them, anyway) are public. I responded to you privately, but I’m hearing that it’s important to you that I bring it up publicly to help bring resolution:
I’m so sorry that I called you “batshit crazy” in that private correspondence four years ago, Julie. That was my expression, and I own it. It’s doubly-regrettable given http://mikemorrell.org/2010/07/tears-for-fears-my-anxiety-and-modern-life/ my own mental health struggles – a sad turn of phrase that speaks to then-unresolved self-loathing, I think.

Please know that I went on no “campaign” to discredit you. I was responding to a single blogger in private correspondence when I believed him to be taking an irresponsibly one-sided tone in a public forum. What I didn’t realize at the time was that I was opposing him in an equally vehement tone, while myself only hearing one perspective in this story. I never apologized to you, for my unconsciable name-calling. I’m so sorry.”
Here is my apology – un-qualified and as I mean it. Thank you for forgiving me.

@Becky Garrison: Re “To Steve’s credit, he is the only US emergent figure who apologized to me for spreading rumors I’m batshit via the Emergent Village network,” I take this to mean that either you don’t feel I’ve apologized, you recognize (correctly) that I spread to rumors to “the Emergent Village network,” or that you don’t consider me a US emergent figure. 

In any case, since I was name-checked several times in this thread regarding you, I want to make public what I hope you’ve heard from me privately since my regrettable remark in that email thread 3-4 years ago, of which you were a part:

I apologize for calling you “batshit crazy” too, Becky. I had beef with you, but it was a poor and counter-productive way to express it. It set back our working relationship, effectively ended our friendship, and utterly obscured the very issues I was seeking to address. I’m so sorry.

(The reader might at this point be wondering: “Does Mike always refer to women he’s experiencing difficulty with as “batshit crazy”? This is a great question, and one I asked myself! A search through my Inbox reveals that these were the only two instances – but still, two is enough to give me pause. I’ve noticed that I’ve also had extreme difficulties with three men in my adult life; the strong names these have evoked are “Thug, bully, and asshole.” All very interesting.)

As I’ve continued watching this thread unfold, I’ve felt both elated and saddened.
Elated, because those who have felt marginalized are finally getting to tell their stories. In some cases, reconciliation is happening. Truths are being told. Old wounds are healing. I could say more about what’s elating, but so many here have expressed this better than I could.

Saddened, because friends of mine on here – women and men alike – are being unfairly maligned with broad brushes, in my judgment. Some bordering on character-assassination.

First of all, can we quite the with “gotcha” guilt-by-association tactics, where a commenter as “outed” as someone who – goodness me – has friendship or professional ties with the accused? Heresy-hunters do this all the time; I’ve been personally tied with antichrist forces and UN One World Government forces based on who my friends are. It’s a tired tactic; it’s spiritual McCarthyism. And, it’s not even a particularly accurate indicator of where someone is coming from.

For instance: Someone could rightly cite my “ties” with Becky Garrison. She and her publisher have been clients of mine; years ago, I worked to promote her book http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/084991972X?ie=UTF8andcamp=1789andcreativeASIN=084991972XandlinkCode=xm2andtag=zoecarnatecom-20 New Atheist Crusaders and Their Unholy Grail: Their Misguided Quest to Destroy Your Faith . I still wear its black t-shirt with the grail on it sometimes. It looks cool.
Knowing about this tie, someone on this thread who’s been, say, taking Tony’s perspective could conclude that I’m in cahoots with Becky’s every syllable. But this isn’t accurate; in truth, I’ve heartily “Amen’d” some of Becky’s input on this thread while wincing at other bits.
Similarly, speaking at a common event does not make you in cahoots. As a sometimes-event organizer for the past fifteen years, I can guarantee you that those sharing a stage or tent do not necessarily the Get-along Gang behind the scenes!

[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myNe1GJDxZMandw=640andh=480]

If only!

Finally, in the “sadness” category, I am disheartened that there’s an almost universal disparaging in this thread of those who happen to be published authors and/or speakers, as though this by default makes us The Man and incapable of basic human compassion. As someone who’s worked with 100+ authors in the past decade, I can assure you – they’re just as beautiful and f-ed up as any of you, and most of them are as poor as you –some possibly more, because they have this crazy notion that they can make their living (or at least part of it) by their words. Our gracious host, David Hayward, is one such spiritually creative entrepreneur, and – full disclosure! – http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0871593637?ie=UTF8andcamp=1789andcreativeASIN=0871593637andlinkCode=xm2andtag=zoecarnatecom-20 a book containing his illustrations has been one of my publicity projects.

So there you have it: Speaking for myself, I have friends and professional relationships and acquaintances (and I’m sure, enemies) on all sides of this. Not neutral like the Swiss – more like complicit from every angle. As a result, I want to build bridges. Perhaps even more importantly, I want to learn.

David started this post to ask – “Which came first – the thug or the theology?”

And I think the “wisdom of crowds” has been very much in play to respond: “Thuggery can flow either direction.” To me, this is a wake-up call to all of us – be we Emergent or Calvinist or Nones or Post-theist – to be aware of the very real potential for abuse in our midst. Not just in our movements, but ourselves/i>. So I’ve been first and foremost putting the mirror to me: Why the name-calling? What do I have to defend? When am I defending out of noble motives versus ignoble ones? How can I discern the difference?

What I’m about to say is my exercise in just this kind of discernment. I do so with fear and trembling, because I have a feeling what I’m about to say could easily be mis-read and misunderstood by any “side” that’s taken the time to weigh in here.

If I could sum it up in a sentence, it would be: “What if it’s possible to give everyone the benefit of the doubt?”

Julie, Brian; David, Holly. Even Tony J.

And, “What would it take to have everyone feel comfortable – even safe – to do so?”
Because I think that “Innocent until proven guilty” is not only a great legal principle – it’s important for me to hold socially, too. I’ve heard some absolutely heart-breaking stories in this thread about alleged abuse; if even 10% of what’s been alleged is true, there should be disciplinary – possibly even criminal – repercussions. Certainly, offending parties should be removed from leadership – perhaps indefinitely – certainly for a good, long time while everything is examined and true restoration and reconciliation happen.
But I don’t know that abuse has happened. This isn’t me calling Julie – or anyone else – a liar. I have my strong biases and opinions and righteous indignations, and I’m not tellin’ you where they lie. But if I was on a jury, as of this moment, I could not pronounce a verdict.

And I’d like to offer that, neither can you.

We have insufficient evidence. There are only two participants in this thread who know what has transpired, and they are Julie and Tony. And obviously, their stories don’t match up. Tony, being seen as the powerful one in this equation, has been brought low in this thread; Julie, recognized as the marginalized voice, has been raised up. There is a corrective that’s occurred here the feels like justice. And it feels good to most of us.
But not all of us. Like David, I’ve had personal conversations (I’m going to avoid the conspiratorial term “privately contacted,” because I think it unnecessarily privileges forums like this one as the only place where conversation can happen) this week with friends who have been concerned about the direction – and even existence – of this comment thread. They feel like, if not 100% substantiated, they constitute libel, defamation, fraud and character assassination; even if no one is in a litigious mood, the accusations stated here can destroy reputations and careers. Unlike the way these folks have been characterized here, these folks are not “abuse-enablers;” many of them are active agents of reconciliation in their own communities, spiritual and secular. Rather, they say, “An un-moderated blog is not the place for such volatile grievances to be aired. Both alleged victim and alleged accuser can suffer serious harm here.”

I both agree and disagree. I whole-heartedly agree that, given the range of therapeutic and mediation options available, a blog (of all things!) is a terrible forum for alleged abused and alleged abusers to have a free-for all. Just terrible! The risk of escalation without resolution is magnified a thousand-fold on (gasp – shudder) Internet comments. Don’t believe me? Go on Huffington Post or YouTube, read the comments, and see how long your faith in humanity lasts.

But I ultimately disagree with my sincere, well-meaning friends who say this forum shouldn’t exist to begin with, for this reason: While a blog comments section is a piss-poor place for this conversation to be happening, it’s happening here because other options have been attempted and found wanting. This is a leveling space of last resort.

This has been a wakeup call for me, and I invite my fellow Emerge-ers to consider it a wakeup call for you, too. We progressive types cheer when the Bill Gothards and Mark Driscolls are brought down. But when it’s one of our own? Suddenly, shit gets real when we recognize a more universal culpability. And I hope that’s where us wrestling-and-stumbling Jesus-followers can gain some perspective from our Story – that somehow, there’s grace and restorative justice for all of us, victim and perpetrator alike.

Even so, it’s complicated to me. Because I believe in “innocent ’till proven guilty,” not just legally but relationally. But victims of abuse are so routinely silenced that it just feels wrong to consider their testimonies out of hand when they’re sharing – even if we hope they aren’t true. This was the mistake I made with Julie, four years ago.

But please forgive me – everyone – if I don’t want to make the opposite mistake and throw Tony under the bus.
I want to give all parties concerned the benefit of the doubt until something more can happen.
What might this “something more” look like?
I can propose nothing better than https://nakedpastor.ehermitsinc.com/2014/09/tony-jones-on-mark-driscoll-what-came-first-the-thug-or-the-theology/#comment-122667 Jennel Paris :

“This situation calls for investigation by a group of mature believers. Try a clergy abuse organization – that’s what they do. Try the Evangelical Covenant Church – they helped start Solomon’s Porch. Try asking the United Methodist Church or other denominations that have structures in place for this kind of thing. I will help do this.

I was once falsely accused, in public, with great potential consequence to my life and livelihood. It was awful. The matter was taken before a group of qualified, mature people who reviewed the evidence and exonerated me. It is possible to investigate the past, and the truth of events, in a responsible way.”
This proposal is echoed by https://nakedpastor.ehermitsinc.com/2014/09/tony-jones-on-mark-driscoll-what-came-first-the-thug-or-the-theology/#comment-124936 Brian McLaren :

“I think that someone on this thread made a good suggestion. She shared that she was once accused of something. A group of qualified and mature people reviewed the evidence in a responsible way. She suggested taking what has been shared on this thread, along with information that can’t in good conscience be shared in public, for private professional review, making use of structures developed by denominations over many years of dealing with situations like these.

I think that is a good idea, and I will do my best to see it is done.”
In my own life, I’ve experienced Brian as a good man full of integrity, whose insides match his outsides. I choose to take his statement at face-value, and trust that he will take steps in this direction. Julie, if you and others don’t feel safe with Brian, et al, taking the sole initiative in this, I hope you can find co-mediators you do trust. I, for one, would contribute to a GoFundMe campaign to get David flown out by your side.

This process has started on a blog, by necessity due to previous failed options. But it would be a tragedy if it ended here on this blog. A Truth and Reconciliation Committee created by and for both parties is the way forward, I think – and I’m willing to put my own money up to see this happen.

PS: I want to affirm what http://hollyroach.com/blog Holly Roach has said here about the trajectory of Emergent Village, and many fellow-travelers, official and non: We’re growing. We’re learning from our mistakes. And perhaps most importantly, we’re diversifying. Powerful women like Holly and http://www.teresabpasquale.org/index.html Teresa Pasquale are taking the lead, catalyzing networks like EV, TransFORM, The Center for Action and Contemplation and the Wild Goose Festival, to say nothing of countless congregations and cohorts, into communities for common good. We’re evolving from our well-intentioned but often-terminally-short-sighted evangelical white male roots into a truly inclusive space for women, people of color, and LGBTQ voices. In fact, I’m on my way out to – full disclosure! – hang with Holly and others who are in Raleigh learning from the predominantly black and Latino Christian Community Development Association about organizing and peacemaking. I wish nothing but peace and all good to those who have moved on from Emergence flavors of faith – and/or theism in general – because of the hurts they’ve experienced. And I’m experiencing the fresh stirrings of the Spirit, creating new life from composted ground.

BTW – if Doug and the rest who feel that they can attack a woman with subtle remarks want to meet me halfway, click the URL that is embedded in my name. You can find me on facebook with this name. You can bring it. I’ve heard it before from the Catholics, you don’t fucking scare me anymore.

Allow me to clarify – it reads like a very subtle, but back-able threat. He obviously wants to take action for the fact that he is being actively connected to some extraordinarily dark matters. Sorry, but when preachers make it right out obvious that they’re focused more on purity of their movement and cleansing it of undesirables, you know you have a really, truly shitty preacher on your hands.

Brian McLaren sounds like someone who either quietly permits or himself actively perpetuates thugology. Jesus had better ideas than thugology in mind when he was on this planet. And thugology got him crucified.

Coupla things:

JoPa – isn’t that what they called the disgraced Penn State football coach that provided safe haven for a child molester? I so love tone-deafness.

Is there a asterisk on emergent marriage vows “In sickness and in health” that states “mental illness isn’t sickness so I don’t have to keep my vows.”? I’m not stipulating that Julie is mentally ill, but if she had been, wasn’t the NPD thing supposed to stay by her and help her through her supposed sickness?

Is there another opt out clause that says “From this day forward – unless I find someone who gives me a spiritual boner…”?