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Tony Jones on Mark Driscoll: What came first, the thug or the theology?
This drawing is inspired by the Ouroboros Snake... of the snake eating its own tail.
What came first? The chicken or the egg? What came first? The thug or the theology? I read Tony Jones' thoughts on Mark Driscoll.
Jones has always admired Driscoll, maybe envies him a little, wants the best for him, believes he can be redeemed, and suggests that things can be restored.
What I found most interesting though is that Jones believes the problem with Driscoll is theological.
- He titles his post is "Thoughts about Mark Driscoll"
- He talks about the "heady" days of publishing and speaking.
- He dismisses his disturbing personality traits by his use of the word "sure".
- He says it isn't a moral issue (evil) but that he is passionate.
- He says more than once that Driscoll is "extremely smart" or "brilliant".
- He suggests that he will "see" (as in "think"?) his way out of this.
- He writes that Driscoll has just embraced a toxic version of theology.
- He hopes that Driscoll will turn away from this toxic theology.
- He concludes therefore that Driscoll is not the problem, but his theology.
But my question is‚ What came first? The thug or the theology?
That is, did Driscoll become the focus of concern because of his theology? Or was it because of his behavior?
I'm concerned that Jones' post reflects the refusal of the church to understand spiritual abuse. It neglects the pathology of its abusive leaders. I don't think this is being fair to the victims or the perpetrators of spiritual abuse. People are victims of not just a bad theology, but a pathological cruelty.
I don't think Driscoll's theology made this happen. Driscoll "embraced" his toxic version of theology because it aligned with his moral compass. It fit his personality. It worked for him to achieve his goals. Then it manifested the worst in him. Then he continued to develop his toxic theology in order to make more room for his pathological behavior. Mars Hill Church too.
Jones' sentence, "It could have happened to any of us." is true, because I believe we all participate in this dynamic. Theology is our creation. It is a reflection of our drives and desires.
Then, not satisfied to only be the product of our drives and desires, it also becomes the producer of them. Theology is a vicious cycle of our desperate need to understand and control our universe.
Step into this cycle at any point and you can see that we are both the root and fruit of our theology and pathology.
And yes, it spins out of control by manifesting itself in toxic, controlling, and abusive behavior. Nothing can be done about bad theology because of free thought and speech.
But we can do something when this manifests itself in bad behavior. Cruel theology is a nuisance. Cruel behavior is unacceptable.
When Driscoll thinks bully to his people, we can say please stop. But when he actually bullies people, we can step in and say you will stop now!
I don't think this is a theological issue. I think it is a pathological one. Not just for Driscoll and Jones, but for the entire church.
If we would be healed, our theology would take care of itself.
1080 comments
To go back to David’s original question … I found this article last night (ok, I peruse Buzzfeed to unwind, sue me). I was absolutely fascinated by the fact that the stories of the women in the article, as well as the responses of most of the men, are almost identical to what we’ve been talking around, over here. The only difference being, in religious situations it’s cloaked in god talk. So I’m going to go with ‘thug’ as my answer to what came first. I think evil people can (and do) hide behind any situation – behind Neo Calvinism and flashy marketing, behind Emergent intellectualism, behind atheistic free thought.
And I also think what (John?) said above rings so true … until the abuse starts affecting the men in a situation, things won’t change. I am so incredibly grateful for men who DO stand up and help support us women who really just want our voices heard, and want to be able to enjoy (church, theological discussions, free thought conventions, fillintheblank) without fear of being treated differently (less than) due to our gender.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/markoppenheimer/will-misogyny-bring-down-the-atheist-movement#46v9m7p
Having a vibrant (and sometimes bawdy) sense of humor makes us less terrible in my opinion, futuristguy. :-) I too am thankful for this discussion. Bringing things into the light is often the first step on the path toward healing … even if there are some who want to keep things tucked away in dark places. (See what I did there? Oooh, and I almost had a typo!) :-)
@ttm. Am I a terrible person? I chuckled when I read “The pull of being a’ chosen one ‘ in a narcissists INERT circle is very alluring” in one of Danica’s earlier comments. Oh the woes of auto-correct … ?
But seriously, I am thankful for this discussion. I continue to learn about important distinctions between sociopathology and narcissism, and other such points relevant to expanding our understanding of the dynamics of abuse.
Well, my eyes definitely aren’t what they used to be! Earlier this morning I was reading Becky Garrison’s comment and saw what was probably intended to read “consent of all parties” as “consent of all panties.” :-) Ha! Reading it again now just before posting this comment, I see that the phrase is actually “consent of all parities.” And that too, made me laugh because panties and parity (or lack thereof) are often key ingredients in “thug theology” …
It would be a miracle if there was a public apology. As there should be because I was publicly abused. It took me these many years to speak my truth without fear. When I had the evidence of “relations” I was told, “if you tell anyone I will tear your head off. It will ruin my career and I will not be able to support the children.” I’m not afraid anymore. I’ve been bullied and abused from my own Pastor at the time. I had no where to turn. The “community” told I was nuts and poor him the suffering spouse who simply couldn’t take it anymore. I was thrown to the ground and my shoulder torn. I am not afraid anymore. There is nothing these people can do or say to make me scared or silent. Whenever I spoke up before I was threatened with “defamation of character lawsuits” or attacked by the circling wagons or blog hosts instructed to delete comments, but my attorney assures me the defense for defamation of character is the truth, and I have it with supporting documents and an MRI. I want peace. I want egos humbled. I await patiently five genuine apologies. Danielle, Mike, Brian, Doug, Brad…and the last one is beyond capable, so I’m letting that one go. The Holy Spirit can move but people have to be willing.