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Tony Jones on Mark Driscoll: What came first, the thug or the theology?
This drawing is inspired by the Ouroboros Snake... of the snake eating its own tail.
What came first? The chicken or the egg? What came first? The thug or the theology? I read Tony Jones' thoughts on Mark Driscoll.
Jones has always admired Driscoll, maybe envies him a little, wants the best for him, believes he can be redeemed, and suggests that things can be restored.
What I found most interesting though is that Jones believes the problem with Driscoll is theological.
- He titles his post is "Thoughts about Mark Driscoll"
- He talks about the "heady" days of publishing and speaking.
- He dismisses his disturbing personality traits by his use of the word "sure".
- He says it isn't a moral issue (evil) but that he is passionate.
- He says more than once that Driscoll is "extremely smart" or "brilliant".
- He suggests that he will "see" (as in "think"?) his way out of this.
- He writes that Driscoll has just embraced a toxic version of theology.
- He hopes that Driscoll will turn away from this toxic theology.
- He concludes therefore that Driscoll is not the problem, but his theology.
But my question is‚ What came first? The thug or the theology?
That is, did Driscoll become the focus of concern because of his theology? Or was it because of his behavior?
I'm concerned that Jones' post reflects the refusal of the church to understand spiritual abuse. It neglects the pathology of its abusive leaders. I don't think this is being fair to the victims or the perpetrators of spiritual abuse. People are victims of not just a bad theology, but a pathological cruelty.
I don't think Driscoll's theology made this happen. Driscoll "embraced" his toxic version of theology because it aligned with his moral compass. It fit his personality. It worked for him to achieve his goals. Then it manifested the worst in him. Then he continued to develop his toxic theology in order to make more room for his pathological behavior. Mars Hill Church too.
Jones' sentence, "It could have happened to any of us." is true, because I believe we all participate in this dynamic. Theology is our creation. It is a reflection of our drives and desires.
Then, not satisfied to only be the product of our drives and desires, it also becomes the producer of them. Theology is a vicious cycle of our desperate need to understand and control our universe.
Step into this cycle at any point and you can see that we are both the root and fruit of our theology and pathology.
And yes, it spins out of control by manifesting itself in toxic, controlling, and abusive behavior. Nothing can be done about bad theology because of free thought and speech.
But we can do something when this manifests itself in bad behavior. Cruel theology is a nuisance. Cruel behavior is unacceptable.
When Driscoll thinks bully to his people, we can say please stop. But when he actually bullies people, we can step in and say you will stop now!
I don't think this is a theological issue. I think it is a pathological one. Not just for Driscoll and Jones, but for the entire church.
If we would be healed, our theology would take care of itself.
1080 comments
Lurker – until now.
Having followed all 900+ posts, I say – wow – and I relate.
Julie: You are very brave and I am glad to have read your story, but not glad you had to go through that and are still going though it. My heart aches for you and your children, who as you say, did not sign up for any of this.
David, thanks for protecting the dialog. You too are brave to put up with all of the garbage.
Others: Having been sexually abused by a man in our church myself at the age of 12, and having had to endure the consequences for the last 42 years, and having been the target of several righteous/religious attacks over the last few years, the abused have a right to speak and be heard even if it makes you uncomfortable. I have never had that opportunity. Ever. It is the one thing I would change if I could, but now everyone is dead, so…
One last comment on language. Words mean things. When you direct profanity at someone else, it wounds others who hear it (read it). I can not censor anyone, but wish you (all) would think just a little more before posting. The world is violent enough, and it is not cool or God honoring regardless of what you have been taught, Billy Madison.
In spite of that, I will continue reading and praying for the abused. Be blessed.
Billy, you have been heard. You think this is terrible and you are “dumber for having read it.” Then please don’t continue. You think my account is a lie. Okay. So, Todd Hielstad, Jenell Paris, Andrew Jones, Chuck….yada, yada, yada are all liars too? I already apologized to Brad Cecil. I though you said you read all 900 comments on this? I don’t want you to get “dumber” so you better not continue to read or post here. You just want to scold me for telling my story? Okay. You can read this and form your own opinion. It’s still my Emergent Cult Story and My Survival of Life with a Narcissist Story, whether you think it’s horrible or not. I own it.
Andrew Jones, can you tell me when this alleged repentance and restoration took place? (and maybe you could add, restoration to what, or whom?) I understand he’s done this with you, and apparently everyone else on the planet BUT me. I understand you and everyone he worked with suffered major consequences to his actions. But it didn’t change the entire trajectory of your life, as it did mine. I don’t understand why no one involved with him now has considered his attempt to confess/repent/make amends to me, important to his return to ministry.
Brad Sargent, with the case studies and research you’ve done, do you have a sort of guideline for a good restoration process? My main concern is that too many of these “leaders” are restored just with the passing of time and no concern as to what has really taken place in the heart. Not that anyone can ever know another person’s heart fully. But what about guidelines; things to look for? Surely it would include a real attempt to restore relationship to the abused parties, wouldn’t it? At the bare minimum, repent to the abused?
@Linda October 3, 2014 at 12:49 pm
You said:
“The followers’ improper understanding of spiritual authority is based in the unexamined acceptance of the teaching of the person they follow. I agree that it is a sad indictment on a lack of spiritual maturity. However, most people have no need to question until their status quo is disrupted.”
Yep, I reckon you nailed it right there. “Unexamined acceptance.” Most people (or maybe, to be fair, I should limit it to “many people”), it seems, are less interested in actual truth and more interested in finding a status quo that works for them relationally, spiritually, financially or whatever and then doing whatever it takes (or covering up whatever it takes) to protect it.
Thanks also Brad/futuristguy for your further response. Lots to process there.
David – glad to hear you don’t have a thing for clowns and sorry to use you as an example, but I feel like it makes a reasonable point. It is very easy to throw out accusations and claims here without the burden of proof. Clearly no one is considering the broader ramifications of speculation. My posting only suggests that we silence those that make accusations without fact as I would hope that all of us should stand for that.
Julie – sadly I have read all 900+ posts and it represents speculation of a “conspiracy” or a “cover up”. Aren’t we talking about a group of pastors that had an aggregate congregation count of like 500 people? I just can’t imagine that an elaborate “cover-up” was necessary or worth the energy to save book deals, speaking gigs that only a few hundred people would read or attend. Especially, when some of them like Brad C. and others were financially viable on their own. By the way, thanks for apologizing about the rumors you propagated here. That did not gel with your comments about others spreading rumors/falsehoods about you.
Oh and ReliStuPhD – fuck you too.