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Tony Jones on Mark Driscoll: What came first, the thug or the theology?
This drawing is inspired by the Ouroboros Snake... of the snake eating its own tail.
What came first? The chicken or the egg? What came first? The thug or the theology? I read Tony Jones' thoughts on Mark Driscoll.
Jones has always admired Driscoll, maybe envies him a little, wants the best for him, believes he can be redeemed, and suggests that things can be restored.
What I found most interesting though is that Jones believes the problem with Driscoll is theological.
- He titles his post is "Thoughts about Mark Driscoll"
- He talks about the "heady" days of publishing and speaking.
- He dismisses his disturbing personality traits by his use of the word "sure".
- He says it isn't a moral issue (evil) but that he is passionate.
- He says more than once that Driscoll is "extremely smart" or "brilliant".
- He suggests that he will "see" (as in "think"?) his way out of this.
- He writes that Driscoll has just embraced a toxic version of theology.
- He hopes that Driscoll will turn away from this toxic theology.
- He concludes therefore that Driscoll is not the problem, but his theology.
But my question is‚ What came first? The thug or the theology?
That is, did Driscoll become the focus of concern because of his theology? Or was it because of his behavior?
I'm concerned that Jones' post reflects the refusal of the church to understand spiritual abuse. It neglects the pathology of its abusive leaders. I don't think this is being fair to the victims or the perpetrators of spiritual abuse. People are victims of not just a bad theology, but a pathological cruelty.
I don't think Driscoll's theology made this happen. Driscoll "embraced" his toxic version of theology because it aligned with his moral compass. It fit his personality. It worked for him to achieve his goals. Then it manifested the worst in him. Then he continued to develop his toxic theology in order to make more room for his pathological behavior. Mars Hill Church too.
Jones' sentence, "It could have happened to any of us." is true, because I believe we all participate in this dynamic. Theology is our creation. It is a reflection of our drives and desires.
Then, not satisfied to only be the product of our drives and desires, it also becomes the producer of them. Theology is a vicious cycle of our desperate need to understand and control our universe.
Step into this cycle at any point and you can see that we are both the root and fruit of our theology and pathology.
And yes, it spins out of control by manifesting itself in toxic, controlling, and abusive behavior. Nothing can be done about bad theology because of free thought and speech.
But we can do something when this manifests itself in bad behavior. Cruel theology is a nuisance. Cruel behavior is unacceptable.
When Driscoll thinks bully to his people, we can say please stop. But when he actually bullies people, we can step in and say you will stop now!
I don't think this is a theological issue. I think it is a pathological one. Not just for Driscoll and Jones, but for the entire church.
If we would be healed, our theology would take care of itself.
1079 comments
@AnImpartialObserver “discovering those facts and details would be very important thing for all of us to do at some point before passing any final judgments.”
May I say, your comment thread is a study in passive-aggressive behavior. Not sure if anyone here is looking to “pass final judgment”. If anything, I think most of us just want to see redemption. The stories here speak for themselves. They are data points. And, as David notes, this is a slow, complex, open-ended, cathartic healing process, not a courtroom. If you don’t get that, then maybe (please) just keep observing from the sidelines.
Alex? Do you need a hug? We give those virtually and freely in the TLS community (The Lasting Supper) it might be a great place for you to feel safe sharing your identity.
Otherwise, I’m kinda done with this strange cat and mouse, push pull dysfunctional dynamic. Of course you are not inept, but that’s attention seeking behavior.
My kids said dads in Italy so you remind me a lot if his communication style always switching up the stance to appear a victim. So if he’s not enjoying Italy but commenting here…how sad.
Either share your name or go away because this is just annoying.
Donna gets to speak and we listen so…step aside or join The Lasting Supper and we can safely get your discovery questions answered in there. Peace, but goodbye now.
Lydia…you get this on a visceral level!! Thank you for detailing my experience so perfectly. He was 3 chess moves ahead and I never knew I was playing!
Again AnImpartialObserver, you fail to understand, so again I will repeat myself. You seem to be in the business of collecting evidence and demanding a verdict. You are obviously more concerned about guilt and innocence than the sharing of stories or the voicing of the silenced. I am not interested in discovering the facts, and I’m certainly not interested in making a final judgment. I am convinced, however, that as we allow everyone to tell their stories without censor or censure we will learn how to live more truthfully and compassionately.
Alex,
This is a narrative, not a judiciary.
It’s messy by design.
Facts and details will always be incomplete.
No-one will control it.
There will be no conclusions, and no final judgements.
But the stories of the silenced will be told.
This is enough for me. Perhaps, even, for most of us.
Please examine your expectations.
Thank you again for your advice Tim. I do find it very helpful.
This is Alex (AnImpartialObserver), and I am dropping the psuedonym, though no, I’m still not comfortable enough with the folks in this forum to tell you my last name. Like you Tim (and others here who have maintained their relative anonymity) I like my personal space.
I don’t really have much more to say though, since I’m not really interested in rejoining this conversation at this point. David and others have made it clear to me that I misunderstood the nature of the thread. I don’t have any personal stories of trauma to share and I was never hurt by any emergent people, so I’m not really sure what else is left to say then. I misinterpreted what was going on here and asked unwelcome questions, and I have apologized for that. This wasn’t the place to get the answers I was seeking. I would still like to have that other conversation somewhere at some point, but I’m not really sure where would be the best place for that anymore. Perhaps it’s not time for it yet anyway. I don’t know.
Anyhow, again, I’m sorry for disturbing the peace. Feel free to ignore my ineptitude and return to what you all were doing before.