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Tony Jones on Mark Driscoll: What came first, the thug or the theology?
This drawing is inspired by the Ouroboros Snake... of the snake eating its own tail.
What came first? The chicken or the egg? What came first? The thug or the theology? I read Tony Jones' thoughts on Mark Driscoll.
Jones has always admired Driscoll, maybe envies him a little, wants the best for him, believes he can be redeemed, and suggests that things can be restored.
What I found most interesting though is that Jones believes the problem with Driscoll is theological.
- He titles his post is "Thoughts about Mark Driscoll"
- He talks about the "heady" days of publishing and speaking.
- He dismisses his disturbing personality traits by his use of the word "sure".
- He says it isn't a moral issue (evil) but that he is passionate.
- He says more than once that Driscoll is "extremely smart" or "brilliant".
- He suggests that he will "see" (as in "think"?) his way out of this.
- He writes that Driscoll has just embraced a toxic version of theology.
- He hopes that Driscoll will turn away from this toxic theology.
- He concludes therefore that Driscoll is not the problem, but his theology.
But my question is‚ What came first? The thug or the theology?
That is, did Driscoll become the focus of concern because of his theology? Or was it because of his behavior?
I'm concerned that Jones' post reflects the refusal of the church to understand spiritual abuse. It neglects the pathology of its abusive leaders. I don't think this is being fair to the victims or the perpetrators of spiritual abuse. People are victims of not just a bad theology, but a pathological cruelty.
I don't think Driscoll's theology made this happen. Driscoll "embraced" his toxic version of theology because it aligned with his moral compass. It fit his personality. It worked for him to achieve his goals. Then it manifested the worst in him. Then he continued to develop his toxic theology in order to make more room for his pathological behavior. Mars Hill Church too.
Jones' sentence, "It could have happened to any of us." is true, because I believe we all participate in this dynamic. Theology is our creation. It is a reflection of our drives and desires.
Then, not satisfied to only be the product of our drives and desires, it also becomes the producer of them. Theology is a vicious cycle of our desperate need to understand and control our universe.
Step into this cycle at any point and you can see that we are both the root and fruit of our theology and pathology.
And yes, it spins out of control by manifesting itself in toxic, controlling, and abusive behavior. Nothing can be done about bad theology because of free thought and speech.
But we can do something when this manifests itself in bad behavior. Cruel theology is a nuisance. Cruel behavior is unacceptable.
When Driscoll thinks bully to his people, we can say please stop. But when he actually bullies people, we can step in and say you will stop now!
I don't think this is a theological issue. I think it is a pathological one. Not just for Driscoll and Jones, but for the entire church.
If we would be healed, our theology would take care of itself.
1079 comments
Just a mom (so much more than just a mom fyi) I read your link story and holy buckets awful! Clearly an abuse of power and spiritual abuse….yuck! I am sorry you went through that but glad you are all good now.
RelistuPhD (great name) thank you for coming forward and attesting to what I observed as well. I knew there was a whole lot of sketchiness going on down in Dallas, Texas at Journey church with Pastor Danielle Shroyer at the helm, but I just didn’t know to what extent. Yuck!
Yes, we are a very intact family now, enjoying my daughter in law very much!
Thank you for the invite, have been considering joining – the fear is real ;) on one hand scared to look at this too much again as I fear falling back into that awful time and facing those emotions again- on the other hand, ready to not be stuck in my current spiritual mess anymore.
Thank you for the invite Brother Maynard :)
I should clarify the PPS as pertaining to Julie’s detractors (if the whole threat-by-PM thing is still going on).
Even though I’ve only read about a quarter of the comments here, it was enough for me to go ahead and scroll down to the comment box.
5-6 years ago, Tony Jones came to our semi-emergent church in Dallas several times to speak (I am told this is where he met his ‘spiritual wife.’ Pardon me while I laugh derisively). It was clear to some of us at the time that ‘TJ’ was an insufferable prick, trying to sell a religious idea that anyone with even a modicum of theological training could see through (if they were willing to apply a dash of logic to their evaluation). Setting aside the latent chauvinism, the blatant narcissism, or the word-that-rhymes-with-‘atant’ snake-oil being sold, it was ultimately the self-referential incoherence that I found so mind-boggling. It’s good to see the Emergent Movement eating itself. I don’t believe in a vengeful God (if I believe in God at all), but I’m sure this is what HeSheIt would look like.
As to Julie’s courageous stand here, all I can say is that had some of us known what was actually going on with a certain photographer within our midst, we would have left the church much sooner. There were a lot of pathologies, both individual and corporate, that were going around that community, however, including another “cheating scandal” that involved one of the core personalities in the group (who is still there, as a leader). I’m not sure that something like this could have been heard above the din that came from a failed financial model, the loss of an admittedly cool place to worship, and the general pushback against any sort of moral accountability. I’m still not sure that community is healthy. I don’t bother to check. It long ago became a place for people who wanted to keep the label of “Christian” without adhering to any of the concomitant beliefs that comes with it.
I might post more later about the actual question posed by David, but for now, I think the above ill suffice.
PS For what it’s worth, I would encourage many of those here who seem to cling to the notion that TJ is someone still within the fold to abandon. There are some who claim the name of Christian who really aren’t.
PPS Juuuust in case someone decides to PM me, please be under advisement that I might cut and paste your PM here if it will serve to strengthen Julie’s story.
@Just a mom,
Wow – I read your story at the link you provided. Don’t know if it’s a “cult” but it’s definitely an abusive situation, no question. Glad to hear your son is back with you and out of that environment. (Did his marriage survive?) I’d encourage you to join David’s online community and connect with people who have been through similar things… it’s helpful to share experiences; it brings healing.