Tony Jones on Mark Driscoll: What came first, the thug or the theology?

Tony Jones on Mark Driscoll: What came first, the thug or the theology?

This drawing is inspired by the Ouroboros Snake... of the snake eating its own tail. 

chicken or the egg cartoon nakedpastor david hayward

What came first? The chicken or the egg? What came first? The thug or the theology? I read Tony Jones' thoughts on Mark Driscoll.

Jones has always admired Driscoll, maybe envies him a little, wants the best for him, believes he can be redeemed, and suggests that things can be restored.

What I found most interesting though is that Jones believes the problem with Driscoll is theological.

  • He titles his post is "Thoughts about Mark Driscoll"
  • He talks about the "heady" days of publishing and speaking.
  • He dismisses his disturbing personality traits by his use of the word "sure".
  • He says it isn't a moral issue (evil) but that he is passionate.
  • He says more than once that Driscoll is "extremely smart" or "brilliant".
  • He suggests that he will "see" (as in "think"?) his way out of this.
  • He writes that Driscoll has just embraced a toxic version of theology.
  • He hopes that Driscoll will turn away from this toxic theology.
  • He concludes therefore that Driscoll is not the problem, but his theology.

But my question is‚ What came first? The thug or the theology?

That is, did Driscoll become the focus of concern because of his theology? Or was it because of his behavior?

I'm concerned that Jones' post reflects the refusal of the church to understand spiritual abuse. It neglects the pathology of its abusive leaders. I don't think this is being fair to the victims or the perpetrators of spiritual abuse. People are victims of not just a bad theology, but a pathological cruelty.

I don't think Driscoll's theology made this happen. Driscoll "embraced" his toxic version of theology because it aligned with his moral compass. It fit his personality. It worked for him to achieve his goals. Then it manifested the worst in him. Then he continued to develop his toxic theology in order to make more room for his pathological behavior. Mars Hill Church too.

Jones' sentence, "It could have happened to any of us." is true, because I believe we all participate in this dynamic. Theology is our creation. It is a reflection of our drives and desires.

Then, not satisfied to only be the product of our drives and desires, it also becomes the producer of them. Theology is a vicious cycle of our desperate need to understand and control our universe.

Step into this cycle at any point and you can see that we are both the root and fruit of our theology and pathology.

And yes, it spins out of control by manifesting itself in toxic, controlling, and abusive behavior. Nothing can be done about bad theology because of free thought and speech.

But we can do something when this manifests itself in bad behavior. Cruel theology is a nuisance. Cruel behavior is unacceptable.

When Driscoll thinks bully to his people, we can say please stop. But when he actually bullies people, we can step in and say you will stop now!

I don't think this is a theological issue. I think it is a pathological one. Not just for Driscoll and Jones, but for the entire church.

If we would be healed, our theology would take care of itself. 

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1079 comments

ALL… of you… are VALUABLE!!! <3

Chris

I want to take the opportunity here to extend a personal invitation to the people who’ve commented on this post to our online community, http://thelastingsupper.com" target="_blank The Lasting Supper . It’s been a great place to deconstruct and find a way back to spiritual health and independence. Several people here are already members and can testify to that. I realize some people might interpret this as me taking a selfish opportunity to gain members. Others will realize that The Lasting Supper is a great community that genuinely helps people, and it would be wrong of me not to offer its services. Anyway, I invite you.

David Hayward

I’ve been reading this for 2 days now, so many times all I could mutter was “WOW!”
My heart is so sad for the “church”, I once thought I had found truth, once.
Our family got connected with a Mark Driscoll wannabe here in MN (whats with MN?!)
Crossing Church in Elk RIver,MN under Eric Dykstra, I believe this church to be a cult- one that I lost my son to for far too long, he is now “home” with his family, thank God! And we, as a family, are healing and moving forward.
But what happened to us all has had a profound effect on my spiritual life, I am a wreck- dont know what to believe anymore. Will not attend church, scared to death of it.
I just wanted to say, I hear you, I believe you, I grieve this with you….
Here was our story http://onemothersjourney7.blogspot.com/

Just a mom

Thank you Dana for your kind words. Those conferences were especially painful for me as I observed so much ego, and so little God.

Julie McMahon

If sharing your story involves another party who does not want their story told and they are a public figure, they sometimes choose to sue for libel or slander. Lawsuits are not the only avenue. Cease and dissist letters are common avenues.

In other news, this blog thread has allowed me to reconnect with some good folk I’ve not talked to in a long time. When I left that world I left it all. It was too difficult to sift the wheat from the chaff. I tried. I was also in a really unhealthy space in my own life and had to draw firm boundaries from toxic communities that fed my unhealthy coping skills until I learned to stand on my own.

I am not going to blame all religion. Some pockets of religion are very easy spaces for unhealthy people to not only exist without treatment, but they can lead. The dangers for fostered codependency and harm to others that may result from that are being showcased in this thread. It ain’t just emergent though. This is a disease that affects all denoms, theologies and mindsets.

Anyway, gotta take kid to school, meet a friend for breakfast and go back to bed.

I have said anything useful I have to say. I’ll be following and clicking thumbs up to stuff.

Thank you again David and Julie and all the brave victims who kicked ass here.

Pat Green

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