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Tony Jones on Mark Driscoll: What came first, the thug or the theology?
This drawing is inspired by the Ouroboros Snake... of the snake eating its own tail.
What came first? The chicken or the egg? What came first? The thug or the theology? I read Tony Jones' thoughts on Mark Driscoll.
Jones has always admired Driscoll, maybe envies him a little, wants the best for him, believes he can be redeemed, and suggests that things can be restored.
What I found most interesting though is that Jones believes the problem with Driscoll is theological.
- He titles his post is "Thoughts about Mark Driscoll"
- He talks about the "heady" days of publishing and speaking.
- He dismisses his disturbing personality traits by his use of the word "sure".
- He says it isn't a moral issue (evil) but that he is passionate.
- He says more than once that Driscoll is "extremely smart" or "brilliant".
- He suggests that he will "see" (as in "think"?) his way out of this.
- He writes that Driscoll has just embraced a toxic version of theology.
- He hopes that Driscoll will turn away from this toxic theology.
- He concludes therefore that Driscoll is not the problem, but his theology.
But my question is‚ What came first? The thug or the theology?
That is, did Driscoll become the focus of concern because of his theology? Or was it because of his behavior?
I'm concerned that Jones' post reflects the refusal of the church to understand spiritual abuse. It neglects the pathology of its abusive leaders. I don't think this is being fair to the victims or the perpetrators of spiritual abuse. People are victims of not just a bad theology, but a pathological cruelty.
I don't think Driscoll's theology made this happen. Driscoll "embraced" his toxic version of theology because it aligned with his moral compass. It fit his personality. It worked for him to achieve his goals. Then it manifested the worst in him. Then he continued to develop his toxic theology in order to make more room for his pathological behavior. Mars Hill Church too.
Jones' sentence, "It could have happened to any of us." is true, because I believe we all participate in this dynamic. Theology is our creation. It is a reflection of our drives and desires.
Then, not satisfied to only be the product of our drives and desires, it also becomes the producer of them. Theology is a vicious cycle of our desperate need to understand and control our universe.
Step into this cycle at any point and you can see that we are both the root and fruit of our theology and pathology.
And yes, it spins out of control by manifesting itself in toxic, controlling, and abusive behavior. Nothing can be done about bad theology because of free thought and speech.
But we can do something when this manifests itself in bad behavior. Cruel theology is a nuisance. Cruel behavior is unacceptable.
When Driscoll thinks bully to his people, we can say please stop. But when he actually bullies people, we can step in and say you will stop now!
I don't think this is a theological issue. I think it is a pathological one. Not just for Driscoll and Jones, but for the entire church.
If we would be healed, our theology would take care of itself.
1079 comments
Yes, Still Cynical, we do tend to ignore almost all of the qualifications for leadership mentioned in the scriptures:
Jesus said be the servant of all, love all.
Paul said choose someone who is not polygamous, not a drunkard, not angry, not a lover of money, has a family at peace, …
There’s very little about being a talented speaker, leader or manager in there!
Can anyone tell me how a pastor is supposed to treat people who disagree or want to leave or leave their church?
_______________________________
The pastors should listen and consider that the person might darned well be right. They should shut their blasted mouths and just sit there, because far too many pastors are so used to hearing what comes out of their own arrogant mouths that they can’t even consider what anyone else says and don’t think it to be worth the time to listen.
But frankly, all the pastors ought to be doing in the first place is being a servant and a slave to others—that’s what a pastor is anyway, at least what sketchy little bits of “pastor” roles can be made out in the NT, as it’s scarcely mentioned—not necessarily standing up there and teaching everyone two or three times a week, running the show, and acting like some kind of CEO. A leader ought to be the one who is the obsequious little nebbish, the little guy or gal running around asking “How can I help, is there a way I can serve, feet I can wash, demeaning thing I can do so no one else has to do it?”
So about the only thing a pastor ought to be criticized in, if they’re a real pastor (not one of these narcissistic, wannabe CEOs who probably wouldn’t know Jesus if He walked up and game them a hug) is that they’re not being servant or slave enough—because that’s their danged role.
If there’s any way you can get anything other than that out of what Jesus said about leadership based on what He directly and unequivocally said about it in Matthew 20, I’d like to know what it is.
claire, a pastor (or any person), who has any sort of disagreement, can choose to:
Listen
Humble themselves (that is, don’t control the situation, and don’t assume they understand or perceive the situation perfectly)
Identify how they contributed to the situation (whether consciously or unconsciously, directly or indirectly)
Take responsibility
Apologise
Allow the other person to express what they want done (and do it, if it is within the pastor’s ability, and truly helpful)
Support the other person’s decisions, even if the pastor disagree with them
Empower the other person at every step
Part friends if possible, and at peace, if at all possible (and never go to court – Jesus and Paul call this dangerous and ridiculous, respectively)
There are so many things I could say, but this list captures the essential responses I would want.
Pat Green I embrace you and your typos. I actually like typos. I’m human and I’m going to mess up and leaving typos reminds me and it’s okay. Your words and honesty have hit me. Thank you. Your daughter thanks you for listening and sensing it was about self and not about humbly serving. God bless you! This here…what David has unleashed IS spirit filled…and tremendously healing. If I sound like a love hippie…then good!
I continue to be helped by this thread!
Question, there’s been a great deal of energy spent on describing the problem…Can anyone tell me how a pastor is supposed to treat people who disagree or want to leave or leave their church? I know it seems like a stupid and general question, but for someone who has been in a bad manipulated place for almost a dozen years I’d like to know what I was supposed to have experienced to have sort of a contrast. Thanks for any thoughts!