Tony Jones on Mark Driscoll: What came first, the thug or the theology?

I am someone who was fairly involved with the EC movement for several years, but I exited around 2010 – partly because I no longer resonated with the (what seemed to me) increasingly inbred nature of the dialogue, and because (probably more importantly for me) my trajectory was taking me beyond specifically post-Evangelical, emergent conversations, and into an exploration of higher consciousness in general. And in that trajectory, many of the questions being asked and debates being had (over and over again) just weren’t all that relevant to me anymore. Claire Grave’s Spiral Dynamics might give you some idea as to the reasons why.

Having stumbled across this thread, after having been absent for several years, I can’t say I am too surprised with some of general movement dysfunction. However, I am certainly appalled by the degree to which the inbred/machine-like nature of the EC movement effectively ran over people like Julie in its march forward. Having explored this thread for a couple of days now, I feel great compassion for Julie, and immense respect for her resilience in pressing forward and protecting her children.

In order to add my own two-cents to this conversation, I would like to relay a couple of incidents I remember from around the time in question. I was one of a group of people who one day, seemingly out of the blue (to me, anyway), received an email from Julie (because, I suspect, I was on TJ’s email/media connections list). In the email, if I remember correctly, Julie asked TJ’s extended community to help address what was going on in their marriage. I believe this was the same time as the RV tour.

I remember being disturbed by that email, and it added to my sense at the time that the blogging-focused/issue-centric/religio-critical nature of the EC movement allowed people (perhaps sometimes enabled them) to ignore their home-lives, family relationships, etc. After all, it’s very easy to “do community” through a blog network (of which my online magazine was a part), when doing so keeps the light away from the inner-workings of our lives and most intimate relationships (where the rubber truly hits the road, IMO). That was part of the reason I bowed out back then, because I sensed my own priorities needed adjustment.

Soon after receiving that email from Julie, I remember getting an email from Mark Scandrette. In the email, Mark basically said (going by memory here) that there was a group being formed that would serve to collectively counsel T and J, and that our prayers were asked for in that endeavor. I remember being relieved that the issue was being addressed, though, of course, now, after hearing Julie’s harrowing account, I see that the quality of that “counsel” left much to be desired.

I’d like to add a couple of additional points. One, while memory is notoriously inaccurate in some ways (see studies on witness testimony), it seems to me that Julie has more than enough support for what she’s shared here to say that there were some major missteps. Furthermore, in this case, the seemingly premeditated nature of some of the alleged actions is chilling, as is the legal onslaught Julie had to deal with afterwards.

Let me also say that, in reflecting on those days, I often noticed a startling disconnect between the quality of the intellectual discourse and the actual living of integrated lives. Many of us were so external-issue-engaged that we often missed what was going on elsewhere in our lives, closer to home (literally and figuratively). I remember meeting TJ in person (during the RV tour), and getting the sense that he was really “in his head” a lot. Now, again, in all honesty, I think the same could have been said of me during those years. And it was partly that growing realization about myself that led me elsewhere. I sensed then that my personhood was not balanced, and I think that’s probably true for many of the players in this emergent sphere – at least that was the case then; again, I’ve been absent for several years, so I’m I can’t speak to recent developments.

I would also like to say something about how it’s important not to equate a person solely with their actions – especially one set of actions. And I’m thinking specifically of people like Brian McLaren and Mark Scandrette. I have some acquaintance with both of these men, and my sense is that, by and large, they are kind, open-hearted, humble people. That said, in the handling of the situation with Julie, mistakes appear to clearly have been made. I would like to see Julie get the apologies she’s asked for (that’s not asking for much). But I’d also caution us not to write people off entirely, even when they make mistakes – because we all make them.

Lastly, as someone involved in those circles “back in the day”, even if indirectly, I want to express my wholehearted sorrow for Julie. I am so sorry that happened to you, Julie. While marriage is messy and complicated, some things are just beyond the pale. And I feel for your children as well, having had to experience their family being ripped apart in such a manner. Also, if I may add, in the religious focus on keeping marriages together (at all costs), there is often a blanket overlooking of the matter as to how to end a marriage well; with mutual respect and support for all parties being held as the aim. If we are to be truly “spirit-filled” and “higher-consciousness oriented”, then surely the nature of the endings should be addressed as much as the beginnings. To me this all speaks to incarnation. That was a word tossed about often in the EC blogoshere, but evidently all too often in short supply in actual practice.

Eric,
Hang in there, sir. This battle is worth fighting.

Someone asked if this was being picked up by any other blogs, and I’ve heard that, yes, a story was being written by a service that has a number of wire subscriptions. A mainstream news source. I don’t understand where “buying” or “threat” was read into that – this is starting to feel like a bit of a mob, folks…

@Alan Molineaux – I absolutely believe that everyone who feels it in their heart to apologize, should. Me, Steve, Andrew Jones and others here, have. I’m really glad we have. And if others feel they can’t apologize, because their understanding of the facts is at odds with Julie’s, well – that’s their prerogative, too. Like most of you, I want to see the truth come out. Unlike some of you, I’m not sure if continuing to repeat the same things over and over on a blog thread is going to serve this truth coming out.

BTW, I totally agree that “The risk of the apology is that the movement may die (deserve to die) -alternatively it may learn, grow, and live.”

I think that all apologies that need to be made, should.

And I think that emergence – and the myriad of other names this community has – IS learning, growing, living. In many networks and communities that have never even heard of the “Big Names” that everyone is talking about here. I know that most people in http://www.northraleighcommunitychurch.org my worshiping community have never heard of these folks – they’re too busy housing homeless folks, working with the Interfaith Food Shuttle, and practicing the Prayer of Examen in our small groups.

I don’t want to see anything swept under any rugs – I feel like anyone accusing me of this must be mis-reading me – either willfully, or because you’ve become so swept up into one way of reading this online discourse, that you feel any divergent view must be swiftly – and shrilly – dispatched.

I think where additional truth-telling and fact-finding needs to happen, it should. I’m not sure that a milieu exists where this can happen to everyone’s satisfaction – a mediator? A truth-and-reconciliation commission? But I pray it does.

May grace and truth find us all.

Hi David.
I just wanted to thank you for your great heart and insight that has led: I am sure you would say unexpectedly, to this fascinating and informative conversation.
I think your art is definitely a creative source where truly a picture can say ‘more than a thousand words’. To add – your words also carry great wisdom

I have followed this link and unfolding story from here in UK whilst being unwell ( I am not sure with work I could have found time to read it all)

I am not a commenter on blogs usually because someone will say exactly what I feel in a far more concise way.

This has been the case throughout this unfolding story.

Today having continued to read and digest the many comments I just felt that I needed to add my small support (for what it is worth) to Julie. I have been incredibly saddened by your treatment at the hands of a group who clearly should have known better. Standing up against those who are more powerful and out to discredit you makes for harrowing reading.

I found the latest blog written by Tony Jones really difficult reading and was shocked to find many comments on the blog were positive: praising his embracing of Mark Driscoll.

For me reading Tony saying:
‘My point is this: It could have happened to any of us’.

I wanted to shout loudly – ‘NO it couldn’t’.

This is a blog with ‘white male privilege’ all over it. Written by a man who has not considered how it feels for those whom Mark Driscoll and his ministry have treated appallingly.
The worst of this treatment directed towards women, and as a female I refuse to let Mark Driscoll off the hook.

So for Tony who says he hardly knows Mark and has never been hurt at his hands or though his ministry: to then state he has ‘reached out’ to him leads those devastated by this man and his ministry looking less capable of following Christ’s teaching to forgive.
This I feel is incredibly insensitive and naive to the pain that those exposed to his teaching have suffered and are possibly still suffering.

Tony also states:
‘Those were heady days. Cover articles on Christianity Today and Christian Century within a year of each other — that’s rare. Television coverage on ABC and PBS. Articles in the New York Times. Speaking gigs, book contracts, conferences. That shit can go to your head.
Let’s be honest. It did.’

I would like to suggest it still has.

Well, I just found out that the Emperors and Empresses of the hip church movement get really peeved when you point out that they’re not wearing any clothes. It’s amking me re-evaluate whether or not I want to have anything to do with Christians at all anymore.