Julie McMahon, Tony Jones, and Submergent: My Update

Great insights! And I agree with Lisa!

May I add that the Pharisees controlled the narrative at the time of Jesus, and the Romans controlled the pitch, tone, and pacing of the ‘official press’.

But Jesus created a platform, and in Matthew Chapter 23, we still read His observations to this day.

Ever read a good book by or about the ‘leader of the Pharisees’ [Luke 14:1]? No?

Ever read a good book by Pilate the Governor [Matt 27]? Nope, me neither.

The books of the submergent will simply pass away. But the dialog that you and others are creating will probably continue to be read.

I cannot imagine that any Christian University would endorse their books or their life-style of silencing and avoidance (‘the priest and Levite walked on the other side…’).

However, I believe that those Universities will be focusing on you and the other ‘Samaritans’ that offered voice to both sides.

You and the other Samaritans will be read and studied, because you showed the Second Commandment in action.

David,

You speak with integrity. You have acted with utmost respect and consideration. You’re the one of the few trailblazers. Perhaps for the moment, the narrative is going exactly where it needs to go… to the wounded and the healers and the wounded healers.

Perhaps for the moment, it is less about educating those who aren’t interesting in listening. It’s more about strengthening and inspiring those that are seeking their opportunity to rise up.

It’s so disappointing when people who portray themselves as advocates for the abused really understand zilch about abuse dynamics.

If every word that came out of Julie’s mouth has been a lie (IT’S NOT! There is tons of evidence, particularly at RL Stollar’s site, and even if there was none, victims deserve to be listened to and not silenced!), the silencing, the denial, the hypocrisy in how this situation has been dealt with compared to how other abusers were talked about publicly on the platforms of people now saying, “Let the courts handles it,” is deafening. It’s maddening. It’s heartbreaking.

I love so much of Rachel Held Evans, Brian McLaren, and Nadia Bolz-Weber’s work. They have incredible insights on a number of issues. Which is why it’s even more devastating to realize that while they give the issue of abuse in the church lip service, THEY. DON’T. GET. IT. And it seems like no amount of pleading, “Hey, what you’re doing really hurts and triggers other abuse victims,” is going to get through.

Rachel likes to talk about what happened with World Vision last year as a day that many in the evangelical community decided they were done with evangelicalism.

The day she continued to contradict her every previous statement about the right to publicly comment on abuse allegations was the day I was done with “progressives.”

David, I hear what you’re saying and I understand why you’re wording this blog post in this manner. But allow me to disagree..slightly..with just a different perspective.

You said they aren’t allowing people like us to join their table to have conversation. I can see why this seems true for many. But let me explain something about people like that. They aren’t hosting the conversation. YOU ARE. They have silenced the conversation at their table. So there’s no point in joining a conversation that doesn’t exist over there. You’re hosting, it’s your table, keep the conversation going. This isn’t just about Tony and the submergent (I like that term). It’s about a much bigger conversation about the cover up tactics that all abusers use. We can draw on several examples over the centuries, just read the court transcript of Anne Hutchinson during early America. Jesus wasn’t about covering up abuse. He exposed it! He covered wounds, he healed them, he showed compassion and called out the self righteous and serpent tongues of religious leaders.

About the narrative.. they aren’t truly controlling the narrative. Where there’s no voice, there’s no narrative. They aren’t really controlling it, they just aren’t hosting it at all. But you are. The ones who do the talking are speaking the narrative. Keep speaking.

While Julie might be controlled by legal bullying (sad thing huh?), they can’t silence everyone. The fact that they try to silence people is a tell tale sign of manipulation and Jesus was not into manipulation.

I, for one, have no interest in joining their table. I don’t want to even try to approach a table that pays no attention to the wounded. I don’t want to be rubbing elbows with so called leaders who silence the stories of the abused. They like to sit at their lofty tables and rub elbows with one another and count their profits. That’s not the way of Jesus. They aren’t being leaders. A true leader does’t silence the story of Christ’s redemptive power in the lives of victims. They shine a light on His Story and how it plays out in our lives.

So while I disagree slightly (sort of), I’m actually agreeing with you 100%.