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Tony Jones on Mark Driscoll: What came first, the thug or the theology?
This drawing is inspired by the Ouroboros Snake... of the snake eating its own tail.
What came first? The chicken or the egg? What came first? The thug or the theology? I read Tony Jones' thoughts on Mark Driscoll.
Jones has always admired Driscoll, maybe envies him a little, wants the best for him, believes he can be redeemed, and suggests that things can be restored.
What I found most interesting though is that Jones believes the problem with Driscoll is theological.
- He titles his post is "Thoughts about Mark Driscoll"
- He talks about the "heady" days of publishing and speaking.
- He dismisses his disturbing personality traits by his use of the word "sure".
- He says it isn't a moral issue (evil) but that he is passionate.
- He says more than once that Driscoll is "extremely smart" or "brilliant".
- He suggests that he will "see" (as in "think"?) his way out of this.
- He writes that Driscoll has just embraced a toxic version of theology.
- He hopes that Driscoll will turn away from this toxic theology.
- He concludes therefore that Driscoll is not the problem, but his theology.
But my question is‚ What came first? The thug or the theology?
That is, did Driscoll become the focus of concern because of his theology? Or was it because of his behavior?
I'm concerned that Jones' post reflects the refusal of the church to understand spiritual abuse. It neglects the pathology of its abusive leaders. I don't think this is being fair to the victims or the perpetrators of spiritual abuse. People are victims of not just a bad theology, but a pathological cruelty.
I don't think Driscoll's theology made this happen. Driscoll "embraced" his toxic version of theology because it aligned with his moral compass. It fit his personality. It worked for him to achieve his goals. Then it manifested the worst in him. Then he continued to develop his toxic theology in order to make more room for his pathological behavior. Mars Hill Church too.
Jones' sentence, "It could have happened to any of us." is true, because I believe we all participate in this dynamic. Theology is our creation. It is a reflection of our drives and desires.
Then, not satisfied to only be the product of our drives and desires, it also becomes the producer of them. Theology is a vicious cycle of our desperate need to understand and control our universe.
Step into this cycle at any point and you can see that we are both the root and fruit of our theology and pathology.
And yes, it spins out of control by manifesting itself in toxic, controlling, and abusive behavior. Nothing can be done about bad theology because of free thought and speech.
But we can do something when this manifests itself in bad behavior. Cruel theology is a nuisance. Cruel behavior is unacceptable.
When Driscoll thinks bully to his people, we can say please stop. But when he actually bullies people, we can step in and say you will stop now!
I don't think this is a theological issue. I think it is a pathological one. Not just for Driscoll and Jones, but for the entire church.
If we would be healed, our theology would take care of itself.
1079 comments
I was asked to post what some people have been emailing me who basically disapprove of what’s happening here. I did this in this comment:
https://nakedpastor.ehermitsinc.com/2014/09/tony-jones-on-mark-driscoll-what-came-first-the-thug-or-the-theology/#comment-123573
So now I’ve been asked to post what private emails I’m receiving from people who do approve of what’s happening here.
Essentially, it’s all the same points, but from another perspective. The same reasons some want to see this managed or shut down are the same reason some want to see this continue.
Here’s what encouraging people are saying:
1. Some say thanks for providing a safe space where people can speak their truth without fear of being censored or edited or corrected or blocked.
2. Some people are writing to me personally because they are still afraid of being targeted, blackballed, or suffer negative consequences or backlash.
3. Some are absolutely amazed at how messy but fruitful this conversation is because apologies and forgivenesses are being expressed.
4. I’m being encouraged for being a good moderator, mainly by allowing this to just happen naturally with the occasional interjection.
So thank you! I’m personally very grateful that this happened. I still predict more good fruit will appear.
Bill Kinnon, I hope so too, but if Doug Pagitt is involved I have very low expectations of any sort of authentic apology. I am 100% confident that the Jo in the Pa, is incapable. I expect a half ass’d placated version of a sorry seeing as Brian McLaren is on the Christianity 21 Phoenix, AZ roster put on by JoPa. I would like to be pleasantly surprised, but not holding my breath.
Andrew Jones….you and your nomadic, global missional family have always had my utmost admiration. You are, and have always been the ‘real deal’ so thank you for hearing my story and receiving it as a follower of God. Thank you for being an advocate and for being authentic. http://tallskinnykiwi.com/2014/09/next-season/
lost voice (now found!) I did I little googling and observed in the comment thread how you were run off Tripp Fuller’s blog for asking important questions and were asked to “message me through Facebook if you want to keep talking.” Those silencing strategies are OVER. Please keep telling your story. It was wrong and abusive and those involved need to be called out.
My hope and feeble prayer is that the “discernment group” will not take a page out of the Mars Hill PR strategy and try to minimize the damage done to Julie by offering a “for how we might have hurt you we apologize” apology. Closure is what’s needed.
The “cancer” Rick speaks of above will never be healed unless the full, cleansing, healing light of Truth is brought to bear on this “disease”.
This thread has been amazing. Other than opening my eyes as a lurking TJ theology fan wanting to express my thanks for bringing all of this into the light.
@Julie. You are amazing. I’m sorry for what you’ve had to go through. While my situations have been vastly different than yours, gaslighting and such sucks.