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Tony Jones on Mark Driscoll: What came first, the thug or the theology?
This drawing is inspired by the Ouroboros Snake... of the snake eating its own tail.
What came first? The chicken or the egg? What came first? The thug or the theology? I read Tony Jones' thoughts on Mark Driscoll.
Jones has always admired Driscoll, maybe envies him a little, wants the best for him, believes he can be redeemed, and suggests that things can be restored.
What I found most interesting though is that Jones believes the problem with Driscoll is theological.
- He titles his post is "Thoughts about Mark Driscoll"
- He talks about the "heady" days of publishing and speaking.
- He dismisses his disturbing personality traits by his use of the word "sure".
- He says it isn't a moral issue (evil) but that he is passionate.
- He says more than once that Driscoll is "extremely smart" or "brilliant".
- He suggests that he will "see" (as in "think"?) his way out of this.
- He writes that Driscoll has just embraced a toxic version of theology.
- He hopes that Driscoll will turn away from this toxic theology.
- He concludes therefore that Driscoll is not the problem, but his theology.
But my question is‚ What came first? The thug or the theology?
That is, did Driscoll become the focus of concern because of his theology? Or was it because of his behavior?
I'm concerned that Jones' post reflects the refusal of the church to understand spiritual abuse. It neglects the pathology of its abusive leaders. I don't think this is being fair to the victims or the perpetrators of spiritual abuse. People are victims of not just a bad theology, but a pathological cruelty.
I don't think Driscoll's theology made this happen. Driscoll "embraced" his toxic version of theology because it aligned with his moral compass. It fit his personality. It worked for him to achieve his goals. Then it manifested the worst in him. Then he continued to develop his toxic theology in order to make more room for his pathological behavior. Mars Hill Church too.
Jones' sentence, "It could have happened to any of us." is true, because I believe we all participate in this dynamic. Theology is our creation. It is a reflection of our drives and desires.
Then, not satisfied to only be the product of our drives and desires, it also becomes the producer of them. Theology is a vicious cycle of our desperate need to understand and control our universe.
Step into this cycle at any point and you can see that we are both the root and fruit of our theology and pathology.
And yes, it spins out of control by manifesting itself in toxic, controlling, and abusive behavior. Nothing can be done about bad theology because of free thought and speech.
But we can do something when this manifests itself in bad behavior. Cruel theology is a nuisance. Cruel behavior is unacceptable.
When Driscoll thinks bully to his people, we can say please stop. But when he actually bullies people, we can step in and say you will stop now!
I don't think this is a theological issue. I think it is a pathological one. Not just for Driscoll and Jones, but for the entire church.
If we would be healed, our theology would take care of itself.
1079 comments
Julie, thank you so much for sharing your story here. It is so important that they be heard. And your last post (9-24) is so revealing of Tony’s character.
Lost Voice, your voice is lost no more. Thanks for the courage and willingness to share. It is as you and others do that the true depths and nature of this abuse and frankly, cancer, is revealed.
as i’ve been reading through all these harrowing posts i can’t seem to get this song out of my head:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4OS17lqHiE
cheers to you julie
Lost Voice no more…we hear you loud and clear! Keep talking. You are heard here. Thank you so much for speaking your truth! This is very important. This is an open message to every woman speaking at the upcoming Christianity 21 event by JoPa in Phoenix, AZ. Are you really going to put your name behind abusive men? Are you honestly going to turn a blind eye to how they have abused their position of power and influence to harm people?! Women?!? I sure as hell wouldn’t. My abuser who had an inside as police chaplain for my city told police I had “split personality and would slip into other voices.” A-maz-ing shameless lengths to discredit! Oh, I recognize what you are describing all too well.
Julie-
I am one of the people Becky refers to I too have a name in the emergent world where I have been trashed. I am now known as “bipolar” and “out to destroy any friend and their church.”
I have moved on. I used to fight it and call it out. A book came out by an Outlaw Preacher that abused me at one of their conferences. I screamed as loud as I could, but was never heard. I have since walked away. It is hard at times. I have left friends behind because I cannot in anyway be around emergent stuff. Friends want me to go to Wild Goose. I consider it, physically vomit, and then do what I always do….use humor and some created story why I cannot attend. It hurts. I miss the time of going to those and loving my friends. It is no longer safe.
I share only a glimpse into my pain to tell you, you are speaking for many lost voices. Thank you.
Sorry for the Garriso – iPad went wonky.
@Steve Upon a bit of reflection re timelines there’s a discrepancy here Steve I hope you can help me clear up. After you apologized to me privately, I asked you for a public apology and heard nadda. I don’t recall any invitation from you for me to connect with anyone on the EV Board.
A while later as the Tony/Courtney news was hitting the blogosphere, I was contacted seemingly out of the bue by Danielle Shroyer (who was also Courtney Perry’s pastor BTW) who wanted to “chat with me.” Given her connection to Courtney coupled with some private correspondence I had with a US emergent voice defending Danielle and dismissing Julie, I was very reluctant to meet with her. But after chatting with a few trusted voices, I decided to give it a go but my guard was very understandably up. Guard up or down, it didn’t matter as after a few emails, nothing ever materialized. I chalked his up to the overall mishahndling of Julie and moved on – hadn’t thought about this really until the Mars Hill mess happened and then the parrallel patterns between EV and MHC really crystalized for me.
To date your public apology (and thank you very much for that) is the only sign I have seen from anyone connected with US emergent – Jeff may have started the rumors but they spread far and wide, and continue to be spread by a few voices even today. I’m just over being gaslight and now play in circles where these guys have NO influence – so I can ignore them without losing sleep anymore.
But trust me, this story is far from over … like MHC, the damage done by both MHC and EV author/speaker/leaders runs wide and deep.