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Tony Jones on Mark Driscoll: What came first, the thug or the theology?
This drawing is inspired by the Ouroboros Snake... of the snake eating its own tail.
What came first? The chicken or the egg? What came first? The thug or the theology? I read Tony Jones' thoughts on Mark Driscoll.
Jones has always admired Driscoll, maybe envies him a little, wants the best for him, believes he can be redeemed, and suggests that things can be restored.
What I found most interesting though is that Jones believes the problem with Driscoll is theological.
- He titles his post is "Thoughts about Mark Driscoll"
- He talks about the "heady" days of publishing and speaking.
- He dismisses his disturbing personality traits by his use of the word "sure".
- He says it isn't a moral issue (evil) but that he is passionate.
- He says more than once that Driscoll is "extremely smart" or "brilliant".
- He suggests that he will "see" (as in "think"?) his way out of this.
- He writes that Driscoll has just embraced a toxic version of theology.
- He hopes that Driscoll will turn away from this toxic theology.
- He concludes therefore that Driscoll is not the problem, but his theology.
But my question is‚ What came first? The thug or the theology?
That is, did Driscoll become the focus of concern because of his theology? Or was it because of his behavior?
I'm concerned that Jones' post reflects the refusal of the church to understand spiritual abuse. It neglects the pathology of its abusive leaders. I don't think this is being fair to the victims or the perpetrators of spiritual abuse. People are victims of not just a bad theology, but a pathological cruelty.
I don't think Driscoll's theology made this happen. Driscoll "embraced" his toxic version of theology because it aligned with his moral compass. It fit his personality. It worked for him to achieve his goals. Then it manifested the worst in him. Then he continued to develop his toxic theology in order to make more room for his pathological behavior. Mars Hill Church too.
Jones' sentence, "It could have happened to any of us." is true, because I believe we all participate in this dynamic. Theology is our creation. It is a reflection of our drives and desires.
Then, not satisfied to only be the product of our drives and desires, it also becomes the producer of them. Theology is a vicious cycle of our desperate need to understand and control our universe.
Step into this cycle at any point and you can see that we are both the root and fruit of our theology and pathology.
And yes, it spins out of control by manifesting itself in toxic, controlling, and abusive behavior. Nothing can be done about bad theology because of free thought and speech.
But we can do something when this manifests itself in bad behavior. Cruel theology is a nuisance. Cruel behavior is unacceptable.
When Driscoll thinks bully to his people, we can say please stop. But when he actually bullies people, we can step in and say you will stop now!
I don't think this is a theological issue. I think it is a pathological one. Not just for Driscoll and Jones, but for the entire church.
If we would be healed, our theology would take care of itself.
1079 comments
Julie is right. I’ve seen it too much for it to be denied. When people are given the opportunity to talk, to share their struggles, then healing comes. And it comes through supportive listeners and communities like this and The Lasting Supper. Promise!
I love this quote:
“Trauma is not what happens to us, but what we bear inside us in the absence of an empathic witness.” (Peter Levine)
Let us be your witness!
lost- I would say that you are not lost, but found. You are not alone. I think talking about it helps. I meet weekly with a professional that understands the abuse that only a skilled narcissist can inflict, while outwardly appearing spotless. Keep talking. I am so grateful to have stumbled upon this community of survivors and there is strength in numbers, and there are advocates willing to stand alongside.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.
Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
But how long does the pain last? Every time I think I am over it a trigger makes me want to pull a trigger. It is a vicious cycle. @Mark – I can totally relate.
Lydia @ September 20, 2014 at 8:16 am
That’s very wise advice for survivors in telling our stories! And the more of us who share our stories, the greater “cloud of witnesses” we create to the abusive environment in a church or ministry or elsewhere. In the past five years or so, think of how many spiritual abuse situations have reached a threshold of details from testimonies that make the allegations about the abusive people and specific patterns involved harder to dismiss. Sovereign Grace Ministries. Institute in Basic Life Principles. Mars Hill Church.
One of the most freeing things I ever did in working through situations of abuse that I survived was to go through the 20-question survey that Barbara Orlowski used for her doctoral research on abuse and recovery. It helped me recall many details that helped give me much more perspective on what happened as I reflected on them. (And because I’d spent over 15 years in several different “malignant ministries” by then, I had to go through some sections of questions multiple times. Wow, did I start to see patterns then!) From this research, Barb wrote the book Spiritual Abuse Recovery: Dynamic Research on Finding a Place of Wholeness. Here’s the link to the page where you can download the survey.
http://www.churchexiters.com/take-the-survey/
A while back, I also posted an article called, “Is It Time To Tell My Story?” It’s a combination of questions and tips for both working through our own accounts of what happened to us, plus doing research reporting or archiving if we happen to be called to that as well. That might be useful, too, if we’re feeling the nudge to share what happened to us.
http://futuristguy.wordpress.com/2013/04/21/is-it-time-to-tell-my-story/
A note about researching/archiving: This is something I’ve done for half a dozen case studies or websites on abuse situations. That’s in part why I mentioned “documentation” and the need for “sourcing” where we got our information so it can be “verified” and gone back to. Sources I’ve used include the details from people’s stories, organizational histories, online blog and website links, timelines, by-laws, court papers, contracts, minutes of meetings, non-profit reports, etc. Often, it seems, when there is a controlling person or group in an organization, their abuse isn’t just in how they treat people, but how they misuse resources of the organization for their own benefit. (For instance, I think we’re seeing internal financial and organizational issues as key factors that keep bringing Mars Hill Church into the news.) So this kind of research can turn out to strengthen a case about control tactics.
Anyway, I know that kind of detailed or research work isn’t what very many people do. But it does seem like a lot of abuse situations have a group of at least a few people who work together to compile that kind of information and/or create websites. And these sites seem to become a focal point for support and community, along with resources that help in recovery.
Final thought: I’ve been actively reading, commenting, and researching in spiritual abuse survivor communities since 2008. It’s amazing and encouraging to see the advances made in getting our stories out there, and letting the truth of what happened shine light on abuse and call for justice and change so that what happened to us doesn’t happen to others. I’m thank for this thread, as another part of of that calling out of darkness.
Brad,
Very rarely is there verifiable evidence and/or witnesses to spiritual abuse. Most of the charlatans are too clever to put anything in writing or to speak publicly in any way that is not vague with plausible deniability. (This situation is different because of domestic violence, custody, etc)
Therefore, I encourage people to “tell their story” from “their perspective” sticking with events. Very few people who have been spiritually abused are “documenting” anything while going through it. Sadly.
The irony is once they tell their stories from their perspective, often there are others who have experienced similar in the same venue. That is how the SGM stuff started. And they found that by following the “rules” of SGM teaching that speaking any negative was sin, SGM was able to keep it all under wraps for many years.
Narcissists and even sociopaths are rarely diagnosed. Therefore, it is accepted to say that someone is exhibiting what looks to be narcissistic patterns of behavior.
But one thing I am emphatic about is encouraging people to deal with the “mental illness” or “emotionally unstable” charge from the charlatans or their sycophants. That can become very serious down the road when it affects things like custody, careers, etc. You don’t leave that one hanging.