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Tony Jones on Mark Driscoll: What came first, the thug or the theology?
This drawing is inspired by the Ouroboros Snake... of the snake eating its own tail.
What came first? The chicken or the egg? What came first? The thug or the theology? I read Tony Jones' thoughts on Mark Driscoll.
Jones has always admired Driscoll, maybe envies him a little, wants the best for him, believes he can be redeemed, and suggests that things can be restored.
What I found most interesting though is that Jones believes the problem with Driscoll is theological.
- He titles his post is "Thoughts about Mark Driscoll"
- He talks about the "heady" days of publishing and speaking.
- He dismisses his disturbing personality traits by his use of the word "sure".
- He says it isn't a moral issue (evil) but that he is passionate.
- He says more than once that Driscoll is "extremely smart" or "brilliant".
- He suggests that he will "see" (as in "think"?) his way out of this.
- He writes that Driscoll has just embraced a toxic version of theology.
- He hopes that Driscoll will turn away from this toxic theology.
- He concludes therefore that Driscoll is not the problem, but his theology.
But my question is‚ What came first? The thug or the theology?
That is, did Driscoll become the focus of concern because of his theology? Or was it because of his behavior?
I'm concerned that Jones' post reflects the refusal of the church to understand spiritual abuse. It neglects the pathology of its abusive leaders. I don't think this is being fair to the victims or the perpetrators of spiritual abuse. People are victims of not just a bad theology, but a pathological cruelty.
I don't think Driscoll's theology made this happen. Driscoll "embraced" his toxic version of theology because it aligned with his moral compass. It fit his personality. It worked for him to achieve his goals. Then it manifested the worst in him. Then he continued to develop his toxic theology in order to make more room for his pathological behavior. Mars Hill Church too.
Jones' sentence, "It could have happened to any of us." is true, because I believe we all participate in this dynamic. Theology is our creation. It is a reflection of our drives and desires.
Then, not satisfied to only be the product of our drives and desires, it also becomes the producer of them. Theology is a vicious cycle of our desperate need to understand and control our universe.
Step into this cycle at any point and you can see that we are both the root and fruit of our theology and pathology.
And yes, it spins out of control by manifesting itself in toxic, controlling, and abusive behavior. Nothing can be done about bad theology because of free thought and speech.
But we can do something when this manifests itself in bad behavior. Cruel theology is a nuisance. Cruel behavior is unacceptable.
When Driscoll thinks bully to his people, we can say please stop. But when he actually bullies people, we can step in and say you will stop now!
I don't think this is a theological issue. I think it is a pathological one. Not just for Driscoll and Jones, but for the entire church.
If we would be healed, our theology would take care of itself.
1080 comments
I get what you are saying Chris Hill. Can you imagine living a life where you had to expend so much energy having to maintain your persona….exhausting. Never allowed to admit mistake or a flaw. Constantly having to appear superior?
I have been reading for a few years the writings of Brene Brown. She kinda blew my mind with her books on vulnerability, and the courage to be imperfect. She is actually a researcher who did a study of the affects of shame…her discovery was that the cure for shame is vulnerability. Her TED talk on vulnerability explains it all. Darling Greatly is her latest book. THAT is what is missing in these people who are incapable of saying sorry. or admitting they made a mistake.
Yes, I would rather be the abused than live the life of an abuser. But how about can we have healthy people that get the psychological help that has been recommended, so they no longer abuse others? They abuse because they are overcompensating for deep feelings of inadequacy, and that is very sad. Someone did that to ‘little kid’ them. But getting well is now their responsibility, especially if they are in leadership. I do feel for the abuser because there is no peace for them, only a false self created to cope with life.
Mark Simon….there are really good people…but I so relate to your disgust of the church as a whole. We can’t let the bad guys win! I’m now at a little episcopal church with some very real and good people. I hope to have a better faith experience than my Solomon’s Porch Emergent cult-like experience. Don’t lose faith. I see elements of God at work in this long thread of posts. I got a finger cramp just scrolling down to post a comment. God is present, even in the mess.
*mental and physical abuse
Yup, I just read this entire thread… and this is just another file in the file cabinet of why all religion is useless.
Julie, I’m sorry you (and anyone else who has experienced mental and physical) and your family had to face this type of tragedy.
I’ve grown to hate religion… while struggling to still believe in a god. It’s not going well, and this truth that was exposed certainly is helping me think that the struggle of attempting to believe… isn’t worth it.
Grace and Peace
I’ve attempted numerous times to post here in light of the evolved topic at hand. And, until now, I just haven’t be able to. I keep typing and then deleting everything that I had typed. My heart goes out to Julie, just to make clear where I stand. And at the same time, my heart goes out to abusers, and I think the reason why is because I was severely abused most of my life, and have had to fight the latter 20 years of my life to make damn sure I didn’t become an abuser myself. It’s been very difficult. My heart breaks firstly for the abused, and after, for the abusers. I think I’d rather be abused than become an abuser. I realize there has been an awful lot of justified anger and expression on this thread; still, I’ll risk hitting the “post comment” button in any case. I feel a bit out of sorts here, because I am a white male venturing to risk being vulnerable, and I have zero intent on drawing any attention whatsoever to myself. It’s just that to a difficult degree, and can identify with abusers, with myself suffering a significant degree of abuse and fighting off (and constantly) the urge to become that which virtually ruined my life (though some of it has been “salvaged,” so to speak). Much peace to all here, and if I have offended anyone in any way, it was not my intent to do so. And my aim has not at all been to shift any attention to myself, but simply to raise a voice to be heard, for whatever it may be worth.
That is so true, Brad. No one has the right to label or diagnose anyone else without the process of thorough clinical diagnostic testing. I inquired of the 6, and their credentials and not one of them is a licensed mental health clinician, but Doug said, “We are all Pastors and we work with people all the time, and we just know.” From a remote location without 1 minute of clinical assessment, I was assessed. Unless you have seen a diagnosis written in black and white by a licensed psychologist, no label should ever be uttered. So, I speak because “it is documented and verifiable…”