Join our Newsletter
If you like The NakedJournal, you'll enjoy my weekly newsletter about deconstruction, freedom, and life in general.
Tony Jones on Mark Driscoll: What came first, the thug or the theology?
This drawing is inspired by the Ouroboros Snake... of the snake eating its own tail.
What came first? The chicken or the egg? What came first? The thug or the theology? I read Tony Jones' thoughts on Mark Driscoll.
Jones has always admired Driscoll, maybe envies him a little, wants the best for him, believes he can be redeemed, and suggests that things can be restored.
What I found most interesting though is that Jones believes the problem with Driscoll is theological.
- He titles his post is "Thoughts about Mark Driscoll"
- He talks about the "heady" days of publishing and speaking.
- He dismisses his disturbing personality traits by his use of the word "sure".
- He says it isn't a moral issue (evil) but that he is passionate.
- He says more than once that Driscoll is "extremely smart" or "brilliant".
- He suggests that he will "see" (as in "think"?) his way out of this.
- He writes that Driscoll has just embraced a toxic version of theology.
- He hopes that Driscoll will turn away from this toxic theology.
- He concludes therefore that Driscoll is not the problem, but his theology.
But my question is‚ What came first? The thug or the theology?
That is, did Driscoll become the focus of concern because of his theology? Or was it because of his behavior?
I'm concerned that Jones' post reflects the refusal of the church to understand spiritual abuse. It neglects the pathology of its abusive leaders. I don't think this is being fair to the victims or the perpetrators of spiritual abuse. People are victims of not just a bad theology, but a pathological cruelty.
I don't think Driscoll's theology made this happen. Driscoll "embraced" his toxic version of theology because it aligned with his moral compass. It fit his personality. It worked for him to achieve his goals. Then it manifested the worst in him. Then he continued to develop his toxic theology in order to make more room for his pathological behavior. Mars Hill Church too.
Jones' sentence, "It could have happened to any of us." is true, because I believe we all participate in this dynamic. Theology is our creation. It is a reflection of our drives and desires.
Then, not satisfied to only be the product of our drives and desires, it also becomes the producer of them. Theology is a vicious cycle of our desperate need to understand and control our universe.
Step into this cycle at any point and you can see that we are both the root and fruit of our theology and pathology.
And yes, it spins out of control by manifesting itself in toxic, controlling, and abusive behavior. Nothing can be done about bad theology because of free thought and speech.
But we can do something when this manifests itself in bad behavior. Cruel theology is a nuisance. Cruel behavior is unacceptable.
When Driscoll thinks bully to his people, we can say please stop. But when he actually bullies people, we can step in and say you will stop now!
I don't think this is a theological issue. I think it is a pathological one. Not just for Driscoll and Jones, but for the entire church.
If we would be healed, our theology would take care of itself.
1080 comments
(((Julie))) I"m glad it went well for you in court today. Stay strong!
See, they (6 Emergent leaders: Brian McLaren, Mike King, Doug Pagitt, Mark Scandrette, Danielle Shroyer and Brad Cecil) needed the crazy campaign to work. It served two purposes: the suffering spouse narrative and the rationalization for divorce. It failed. In fact, through court ordered psychological evaluations…it actually backfired. The NPD will not be deterred.
Onto the next campaign. The Julie is a criminal campaign came next. A lawyer who charges $450 an hour was hired (but I can’t pay support) and on her website she brags she is the best at flipping custody. But how? Julie is a really great mother….hmmm…..a plan was hatched. December 8, 2012 (my birthday) I was served with an Order for Protection. When I glanced at it, I thought what is he up to now? I threw it away thinking…why the hell would I want to talk to you? See, I had no contact with him for about 6 glorious months. It was bliss. The NPD needed to get his target…but how? In a domestic moment, I was grabbed by the neck and pushed up against a wall and told, “You’ll NEVER get the kids.” So, years later a plan to take yet another run at flipping custody was launched. Numerous failed prior attempts.
Fast forward to June 2013. The children were having visitation with their dad. I had just recovered from a surgery. I asked if they could stay a day or two more, if I needed it, because I was not supposed to drive. I felt better the next day and asked for their return. He refused. I let it go….smelling the gas fumes from the gas lighting a mile away. The next morning, I asked for them to be returned immediately. Your visitation time is over and they have dental appointments. Before I left the house I called his cell phone and said, “I’m on my way. They have dental appointments.” When I arrived 3 Edina police cop cars where there waiting. He was waiting with a recording in his hand and said, “Arrest her now she just called my cell.” Officer Joy Frogadt, his friend from police chaplain days, and ride-a-longs, and chili fests was the arresting officer. I did not know it but I had violated the OFP from 6 months prior by calling his cell instead of internet communication. A humane cop there said, “Do you really want to do this in front of your kids?” All 3 kids watching in the window. “She broke the law, arrest her NOW. Do your job!” THAT is why he would like you all to google the public records….the arrest has been continued for over a year without conviction, because its bogus. The courts amended the OFP and that could never happen today.
THE KICKER??? He had a pre written an Ex Parte Legal document in his hand asking the family courts to “Immediately change custody because their mother is in jail.” This was written BEFORE I arrived to pick up my children. Bone chilling…I know! Sociopath behavior. Luckily, the wise judge saw straight through it immediately and with a red marker x’d it out and wrote DENIED.
So, a person up top said, “What about the children?!” This is the person so concerned with the children?!! My 8 year old asked what happened to mom? The answer? “Your mother is a criminal. You are with me now.” Through therapy my 8 year old shared he had planned when school started to ask his teacher if she could please help him see me. I know….that made me want to be sick.
I spent 12 hours in jail. Post op with no pain meds. my gauze was ripped off in a strip search and I was bleeding. It was on a Friday and planned as such so I would have to spend the weekend maybe, and no lawyers would be available. Luckily, there was. So, this story gets more amazing….
Cornerstone a battered women’s shelter was called by him and he told them he needed this conviction because he and his wife do not feel safe. Further, the Edina prosecuting attorney told us he wrote her letters touting the “crazy campaign” and please help me I AM THE VICTIM. This very young advocate woman with presumably little experience with diagnosed narcissist, wrote a letter to the prosecuting attorney on his behalf stating you must convict because she is crazy….JUST because he said so.
Then we sent the psych evals and the 15 court proceedings instigated by him and suddenly he wasn’t a battered woman after all.
Today in court it was again continued until December 11, 2014 (two years later). The OFP expired and amended. Point is now moot. I am taking it to trial. Abuse of position as a police chaplain. Again, abuse of power.
Why this story? To illustrate how NPDs never tire. They never stop until their narcissistic target is destroyed. There is no depth to which they will go to be perceived perfect and spotless. I MUST be perceived as crazy or a criminal. I am neither, but I did marry a mentally ill person who has abused his position as a chaplain and as a Pastor just as Danielle Shroyer, Brad Cecil, Doug Pagitt, Brian McLaren, Mike King and Mark Scandrette did by aiding in this spiritual abuse and diabolical behavior.
Cecilia: I’m sorry if i hurt you about the swearing thing. I was trying to acknowledge someone’s complaint about the strong language while at the same time explaining that it is only another way to speak that might require a small effort to translate. Anyway, it didn’t offend me at all. I like the unrestrained nature of this conversation. There are a lot of people, nervous about commenting here, who are letting me know via other means how meaningful this post and discussion is… like twitter, facebook, and emails. Some people have been so burned because they’ve spoken that they are still leery of trying it here.
Cecilia: What tru said.
@Cecilia, re: swearing:
An analogy I like for swearing in situations like this -
Say you pull up to the curb and park your car square on my foot. Most likely you’re going to get a strong reaction from me. If I say “Hey, get your fucking car of my goddamn foot, you moron!” are you going to say “Well, that tone isn’t really helpful. I think you should really be more respectful when you are asking for this. It hurts my feelings that you called me a moron and just because I made one mistake doesn’t mean I should be labeled as a moron. Now, go ahead and ask again nicely and I’ll pull right off your foot. Then you can contact my insurer if you need anything, though I have a really little car so I doubt it’s as bad as you’re making it out to be”
Or would you say “Oh my gosh, I’m so sorry!” then move your car off my foot and offer to render whatever assistance is needed to get me the appropriate medical care?
So … yeah, hurting people use angry words. And they get to. And anyone who tells them that they won’t listen or shouldn’t say their say, I suspect of an agenda other than the safety and healing of those who are hurting.