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Tony Jones on Mark Driscoll: What came first, the thug or the theology?
This drawing is inspired by the Ouroboros Snake... of the snake eating its own tail.
What came first? The chicken or the egg? What came first? The thug or the theology? I read Tony Jones' thoughts on Mark Driscoll.
Jones has always admired Driscoll, maybe envies him a little, wants the best for him, believes he can be redeemed, and suggests that things can be restored.
What I found most interesting though is that Jones believes the problem with Driscoll is theological.
- He titles his post is "Thoughts about Mark Driscoll"
- He talks about the "heady" days of publishing and speaking.
- He dismisses his disturbing personality traits by his use of the word "sure".
- He says it isn't a moral issue (evil) but that he is passionate.
- He says more than once that Driscoll is "extremely smart" or "brilliant".
- He suggests that he will "see" (as in "think"?) his way out of this.
- He writes that Driscoll has just embraced a toxic version of theology.
- He hopes that Driscoll will turn away from this toxic theology.
- He concludes therefore that Driscoll is not the problem, but his theology.
But my question is‚ What came first? The thug or the theology?
That is, did Driscoll become the focus of concern because of his theology? Or was it because of his behavior?
I'm concerned that Jones' post reflects the refusal of the church to understand spiritual abuse. It neglects the pathology of its abusive leaders. I don't think this is being fair to the victims or the perpetrators of spiritual abuse. People are victims of not just a bad theology, but a pathological cruelty.
I don't think Driscoll's theology made this happen. Driscoll "embraced" his toxic version of theology because it aligned with his moral compass. It fit his personality. It worked for him to achieve his goals. Then it manifested the worst in him. Then he continued to develop his toxic theology in order to make more room for his pathological behavior. Mars Hill Church too.
Jones' sentence, "It could have happened to any of us." is true, because I believe we all participate in this dynamic. Theology is our creation. It is a reflection of our drives and desires.
Then, not satisfied to only be the product of our drives and desires, it also becomes the producer of them. Theology is a vicious cycle of our desperate need to understand and control our universe.
Step into this cycle at any point and you can see that we are both the root and fruit of our theology and pathology.
And yes, it spins out of control by manifesting itself in toxic, controlling, and abusive behavior. Nothing can be done about bad theology because of free thought and speech.
But we can do something when this manifests itself in bad behavior. Cruel theology is a nuisance. Cruel behavior is unacceptable.
When Driscoll thinks bully to his people, we can say please stop. But when he actually bullies people, we can step in and say you will stop now!
I don't think this is a theological issue. I think it is a pathological one. Not just for Driscoll and Jones, but for the entire church.
If we would be healed, our theology would take care of itself.
1080 comments
Scott Jones: I do appreciate you coming by to get involved in this conversation because my hope is that everyone would learn from this and prevent such things from happening in the future.
But I would like to show you how your comment is actually not helpful. You exhibit the sad but typical response to people who claim to be victims of abuse. Here’s why:
1. You dismiss the way in which the alleged victim expresses themselves. You say that it is inappropriate for her to say such things, and that this format is an inappropriate medium to say them in. It’s just another way to control the dissemination of information and silence the offended.
2. You normalize abuse by saying nobody’s perfect and everybody hurts. You’re asking the alleged victims to accept that their alleged abusers are just human and make mistakes and they should let it go. Plus you’re saying that pain is just a part of life and they should just accept it. The fact is, abuse is not normal human behavior and is totally unacceptable in all forms.
3. You elevate the importance of the alleged aggressors, suggesting that they are important and good people, and that we shouldn’t speak negatively of them because not only do they have an important ministry, but they are also sent by God. This is the whole “thou shalt not touch God’s anointed” fear tactic that worked effectively on me for decades. I finally came to see it was just another way to give leaders a pass to be unaccountable.
I claim that the alleged victims seem relieved and thankful for this medium because it is finally allowing them to express themselves freely in an uncontrolled manner. Apparently they’ve been shut down and silenced for years in the more “appropriate” mediums. Not here.
Can you now see how your response to what’s happening here is in fact disrespectful and dismissive to those who claim to be abused?
Thank you, Ian. How could you know? As Bro Maynard or Bill Kinnon said up top, the only one telling the story had the megaphone. Thank you, David for this space…I go to court today probably for the 15th time because of the inability of an NPD to release their narcissistic target once they’ve caused them narcissistic injury. I take all of the love and support from here with me. Renewed strength that what happened was indeed very wrong. I forgive you Ian, fully, and thank you for your apology.
Annie – “I think that what is so cathartic and compelling about Julie’s story/stories is how very awfully true they ring” YES!
Julie – You are a courageous and amazing woman. I believe you. I don’t need to read any documents or evidence. I believe every word as I’ve seen this before (though your story needs to be a movie of the week at the least). Just sent you a FB friend request. I’m in MN and would love to buy you a drink and give you a hug if you’re up to it.. You aren’t just speaking out for yourself but for so many women this horrible scenario has happened to. You are bringing healing. Thank you.
Even though we might personally prefer someone not say go fuck yourself back to Sodom, and perhaps some of us are uncomfortable with that kind of language, I think it is possible to read through the strong words and emotions, get the gist of their message, and translate it into understandable language. I simply take it to mean that the writer wishes you would take you and your ideas home. However, even though we might disagree with each other, I also prefer we stay in this conversation until we achieve an agreeable clarity.
Wow. Everything is terrible.
Julie, stay strong.
One thing I’ve learned (painfully, from personal experience) is how to pick up when a narcissistic or psychopathic person is playing the victim card. Tony’s post definitely tripped my radar, just like Mark Driscoll’s announcement about going for super-extra vacation or whatever they are calling the period where he does nothing until his minions can cobble together their acquittal.