Join our Newsletter
If you like The NakedJournal, you'll enjoy my weekly newsletter about deconstruction, freedom, and life in general.
Tony Jones on Mark Driscoll: What came first, the thug or the theology?
This drawing is inspired by the Ouroboros Snake... of the snake eating its own tail.
What came first? The chicken or the egg? What came first? The thug or the theology? I read Tony Jones' thoughts on Mark Driscoll.
Jones has always admired Driscoll, maybe envies him a little, wants the best for him, believes he can be redeemed, and suggests that things can be restored.
What I found most interesting though is that Jones believes the problem with Driscoll is theological.
- He titles his post is "Thoughts about Mark Driscoll"
- He talks about the "heady" days of publishing and speaking.
- He dismisses his disturbing personality traits by his use of the word "sure".
- He says it isn't a moral issue (evil) but that he is passionate.
- He says more than once that Driscoll is "extremely smart" or "brilliant".
- He suggests that he will "see" (as in "think"?) his way out of this.
- He writes that Driscoll has just embraced a toxic version of theology.
- He hopes that Driscoll will turn away from this toxic theology.
- He concludes therefore that Driscoll is not the problem, but his theology.
But my question is‚ What came first? The thug or the theology?
That is, did Driscoll become the focus of concern because of his theology? Or was it because of his behavior?
I'm concerned that Jones' post reflects the refusal of the church to understand spiritual abuse. It neglects the pathology of its abusive leaders. I don't think this is being fair to the victims or the perpetrators of spiritual abuse. People are victims of not just a bad theology, but a pathological cruelty.
I don't think Driscoll's theology made this happen. Driscoll "embraced" his toxic version of theology because it aligned with his moral compass. It fit his personality. It worked for him to achieve his goals. Then it manifested the worst in him. Then he continued to develop his toxic theology in order to make more room for his pathological behavior. Mars Hill Church too.
Jones' sentence, "It could have happened to any of us." is true, because I believe we all participate in this dynamic. Theology is our creation. It is a reflection of our drives and desires.
Then, not satisfied to only be the product of our drives and desires, it also becomes the producer of them. Theology is a vicious cycle of our desperate need to understand and control our universe.
Step into this cycle at any point and you can see that we are both the root and fruit of our theology and pathology.
And yes, it spins out of control by manifesting itself in toxic, controlling, and abusive behavior. Nothing can be done about bad theology because of free thought and speech.
But we can do something when this manifests itself in bad behavior. Cruel theology is a nuisance. Cruel behavior is unacceptable.
When Driscoll thinks bully to his people, we can say please stop. But when he actually bullies people, we can step in and say you will stop now!
I don't think this is a theological issue. I think it is a pathological one. Not just for Driscoll and Jones, but for the entire church.
If we would be healed, our theology would take care of itself.
1080 comments
“Perhaps this is a forum that leads to expression better than to truth, love or justice. If we’re concerned with any of the latter, let’s move to forum which could lead to such ends.”
That would be a real feat without hearing Julie’s experience in the situation—- in her own words. You offering to moderate? :o)
But nice try…very “platitudiness”. The more you guys talk, the more I believe her. Seen it way too many times in the evangelical world. Is there a playbook somewhere? Or is it anything to save the guru?This comment feed has become a giant lynch mob. Julie, I feel bad for whatever happened to you. If you want a safe place to talk which it sounds like you do…might I suggest somewhere other than a public blog where anyone with an email address can insult you and drag you and your children through the mud. Although airing your anger seems to be your purpose which if so is what it is. I find the purpose of this entire comment feed is anger if not gossip. As a culture we enjoy dragging people through mud, delighting in their failures and jumping on the bandwagon to shame one another. I don’t even think it’s our culture, it’s ancient. Jesus stopped stonings, had dinner with those tax gatherers nobody liked, was friends with sluts, and was in the end betrayed by a mob for a thief nobody really liked.
So keep dragging people through the mud, insult dissenting voices, argue and be angry. It’s part of the fallen human condition. And at the end of the day, there is grace. There is a God who can handle our anger, our brokenness, and our mistakes. As an abused person I can say anger is natural. I can say an apology won’t make what happened to you go away even when you get it. My journey led me to move to a new state, make all new friends, and seek out therapy. I’m sure yours will be dramatic as well. Is Catherine my real name? Of course not, because I recognize this is NOT a safe place to discuss domestic violence and personal conflict. It’s a public blog. It’s like many churches I’ve encountered, willing to throw stones at the most likely perpetrator and forgetting that while we can’t ignore injustice we need to comfort, forgive, and be good to even our enemies.
Scott Jones (not the other Scott, you’re okay), I’m going to say this as my own thing -
IF A VICTIM NEEDS TO TALK, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SILENCE THEM.
IF YOUR GOAL IS TO SILENCE A VICTIM, THEN YOU NEED TO SHUT IT.
Not everyone’s going to agree with that sentiment, but I made damn sure I worded it carefully. Julie’s speaking out about extremely painful events. You have no right or obligation to try and attack her credibility when she’s being outright frank. [SWEARS TIME] Really, if you’re going to be a fucking asshole to people about it and you claim to be a Christian, I can tell you right now that you’re trying to take the religion (and Jesus’s message) and make it something you control. Your religion is a cult of personality rather than a religion of peace and love. If you absolutely refuse to make the world better by REDUCING suffering and instead INCREASE IT, then you are an outright horrible person.
If you are ever going to try and tell people that their pain is irrelevant and that your own feelings are more important, you can kindly kiss my ass and fuck off back to Sodom, you hateful monster.
This is a quote on Brad Sargeants blog. Seems to fit in well with this conversation.
“Every account like this makes a difference for those of us who’ve survived spiritually abusive situations.
And hopefully, in the long run, courageous people like yourself and others who choose to do something will help turn the tide.”
~Brad Sargent
Michelle I stand beside you as your sister is surviving and thriving life beyond abuse and gas lighting. We can teach our kids to recognize the signs, tricks and tactics. To stand up for themselves and refuse to allow that mental abuse to sink in. I am sending you an enormous virtual hug.