Tony Jones on Mark Driscoll: What came first, the thug or the theology?

Tony Jones on Mark Driscoll: What came first, the thug or the theology?

This drawing is inspired by the Ouroboros Snake... of the snake eating its own tail. 

chicken or the egg cartoon nakedpastor david hayward

What came first? The chicken or the egg? What came first? The thug or the theology? I read Tony Jones' thoughts on Mark Driscoll.

Jones has always admired Driscoll, maybe envies him a little, wants the best for him, believes he can be redeemed, and suggests that things can be restored.

What I found most interesting though is that Jones believes the problem with Driscoll is theological.

  • He titles his post is "Thoughts about Mark Driscoll"
  • He talks about the "heady" days of publishing and speaking.
  • He dismisses his disturbing personality traits by his use of the word "sure".
  • He says it isn't a moral issue (evil) but that he is passionate.
  • He says more than once that Driscoll is "extremely smart" or "brilliant".
  • He suggests that he will "see" (as in "think"?) his way out of this.
  • He writes that Driscoll has just embraced a toxic version of theology.
  • He hopes that Driscoll will turn away from this toxic theology.
  • He concludes therefore that Driscoll is not the problem, but his theology.

But my question is‚ What came first? The thug or the theology?

That is, did Driscoll become the focus of concern because of his theology? Or was it because of his behavior?

I'm concerned that Jones' post reflects the refusal of the church to understand spiritual abuse. It neglects the pathology of its abusive leaders. I don't think this is being fair to the victims or the perpetrators of spiritual abuse. People are victims of not just a bad theology, but a pathological cruelty.

I don't think Driscoll's theology made this happen. Driscoll "embraced" his toxic version of theology because it aligned with his moral compass. It fit his personality. It worked for him to achieve his goals. Then it manifested the worst in him. Then he continued to develop his toxic theology in order to make more room for his pathological behavior. Mars Hill Church too.

Jones' sentence, "It could have happened to any of us." is true, because I believe we all participate in this dynamic. Theology is our creation. It is a reflection of our drives and desires.

Then, not satisfied to only be the product of our drives and desires, it also becomes the producer of them. Theology is a vicious cycle of our desperate need to understand and control our universe.

Step into this cycle at any point and you can see that we are both the root and fruit of our theology and pathology.

And yes, it spins out of control by manifesting itself in toxic, controlling, and abusive behavior. Nothing can be done about bad theology because of free thought and speech.

But we can do something when this manifests itself in bad behavior. Cruel theology is a nuisance. Cruel behavior is unacceptable.

When Driscoll thinks bully to his people, we can say please stop. But when he actually bullies people, we can step in and say you will stop now!

I don't think this is a theological issue. I think it is a pathological one. Not just for Driscoll and Jones, but for the entire church.

If we would be healed, our theology would take care of itself. 

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A note of thanks: This thread was influential in how I approached my sermon this Sunday on forgiveness. So often the sermons, Christian books, and discourses I have heard that deal with matters of forgiveness silence victims of abuse and sin. This thread gave me increased amounts of courage to own my deep discomfort with the narrative about forgiveness as a tool of oppressors and silencers. As I said to one of the women who came up to me after church: "I needed to narrate some “good news” about forgiveness that didn’t kill me." Too often faith and concepts like forgiveness are utilized and employed to kill and destroy those who have been/are being abused and silenced. I am, instead, committed to a gospel that truly is “good news” and gives us all voices and believes and sees those who have survived as fully human persons. Thank you again for your courage, Julie and others. And David Hayward- thanks for reminding me about why I’m committed to providing spaces where people can experience life and live their truths.

Sara WG

Update: I decided not to meet with Doug Pagitt. I asked him to help out in a tough situation with the kids the other night. He lives 1 block away. He never responded. My son used his sisters phone to text his dad about hockey. Obsessed ex called the police and said I was texting him and harassing him and arrest me. I wasn’t even home! The police interrogated a frightened 13 and 10 year old. I asked Doug to please put a leash on his insane and obsessed bestie and business partner. Crickets. Then he treated me like the “mental patient” because that is the role I need to play for their narrative to work. I said, “I am going to pass on the whole reconciliation idea.” Then I saw this quote: “I am sorry I just can’t explain this to you again…I’m not the jackass whisperer.” Upon reflection, I have no respect for these people (none) who are complete and utter “xian” frauds so why the hell would I give a minute towards “reconciling” which I know full well means accepting their narrative. I would and tried too many times for peace with my ex for my kids sake, but again…I am not a jack ass or narcissist whisperer.

Julie McMahon

Self-care is job one.

Nakedpastor David Hayward

And yes. I misspelled my own name. Sheesh!

Patrick Green

Commenting so I can subscribe by email to new comments. This has been a remarkable thread, and I’m in awe of the bravery, strength, and truth-telling on display here.

apolarity

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