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Tony Jones on Mark Driscoll: What came first, the thug or the theology?
This drawing is inspired by the Ouroboros Snake... of the snake eating its own tail.
What came first? The chicken or the egg? What came first? The thug or the theology? I read Tony Jones' thoughts on Mark Driscoll.
Jones has always admired Driscoll, maybe envies him a little, wants the best for him, believes he can be redeemed, and suggests that things can be restored.
What I found most interesting though is that Jones believes the problem with Driscoll is theological.
- He titles his post is "Thoughts about Mark Driscoll"
- He talks about the "heady" days of publishing and speaking.
- He dismisses his disturbing personality traits by his use of the word "sure".
- He says it isn't a moral issue (evil) but that he is passionate.
- He says more than once that Driscoll is "extremely smart" or "brilliant".
- He suggests that he will "see" (as in "think"?) his way out of this.
- He writes that Driscoll has just embraced a toxic version of theology.
- He hopes that Driscoll will turn away from this toxic theology.
- He concludes therefore that Driscoll is not the problem, but his theology.
But my question is‚ What came first? The thug or the theology?
That is, did Driscoll become the focus of concern because of his theology? Or was it because of his behavior?
I'm concerned that Jones' post reflects the refusal of the church to understand spiritual abuse. It neglects the pathology of its abusive leaders. I don't think this is being fair to the victims or the perpetrators of spiritual abuse. People are victims of not just a bad theology, but a pathological cruelty.
I don't think Driscoll's theology made this happen. Driscoll "embraced" his toxic version of theology because it aligned with his moral compass. It fit his personality. It worked for him to achieve his goals. Then it manifested the worst in him. Then he continued to develop his toxic theology in order to make more room for his pathological behavior. Mars Hill Church too.
Jones' sentence, "It could have happened to any of us." is true, because I believe we all participate in this dynamic. Theology is our creation. It is a reflection of our drives and desires.
Then, not satisfied to only be the product of our drives and desires, it also becomes the producer of them. Theology is a vicious cycle of our desperate need to understand and control our universe.
Step into this cycle at any point and you can see that we are both the root and fruit of our theology and pathology.
And yes, it spins out of control by manifesting itself in toxic, controlling, and abusive behavior. Nothing can be done about bad theology because of free thought and speech.
But we can do something when this manifests itself in bad behavior. Cruel theology is a nuisance. Cruel behavior is unacceptable.
When Driscoll thinks bully to his people, we can say please stop. But when he actually bullies people, we can step in and say you will stop now!
I don't think this is a theological issue. I think it is a pathological one. Not just for Driscoll and Jones, but for the entire church.
If we would be healed, our theology would take care of itself.
1079 comments
I do understand, Julie. Completely. I deal with this sort of thing all the time. Was the battered women’s shelter able to provide you any assistance? Even if the police could somehow be compromised, the court system reviews years of evidence and testimony before ruling. It is in no way limited to police testimony for exactly this reason. I have seen many innocent women vindicated, despite an incomplete police report, when judges followed the paper trail around a series of events that are as obvious as the ones you describe. Are any of the cases still playing out? Perhaps your day will still come. I wish I could have worked on your case for you but I just saw that you are in Minnesota and I am in California.
LL I wish it were that simple. A skilled NPD will even work the police. He was a police chaplain and hosted the annual chil festival at the police station. Not sure if you read the thread but the night of my shoulder injury by his hands he said, “haven’t you ever heard of the code of the blue? They’ll never believe you.” He talk hunting leaning on the squad car as a male officer asked my kids what happened. They detailed Dad hurt mom but the report says, “fell in a chair” unbelievable. They asked is I wanted to press charges and I said no not wanting my kids to have their dad arrested. They gave me the number to a battered shelter advocacy and escorted him out of the home. So, with an NPD who gas lights and is amazing at getting others to do his dirty work things are not as they seem. Also, records would not include discernemt letters, a grassroots crazy campaign, or Doug Pagitt pressuring me to go to a hospital. What you would see is a ridiculous amount if legal motions filed by him…a ridiculous amout! Only an NPD could reek such havoc. And they do! They truly enjoy the theatrics and the process.
As someone who has been educated as an advocate for many women in Julie’s position I find the back and forth of this thread to be infuriating. It should be easy for anyone reading to digitally access or at least write a letter to the courthouse demanding the public records related to her cases. The law requires officials to document domestic abuse for example. I don’t know where Julie’s case unfolded, but restraining orders are also covered by the Freedom of Information Act in most states. Both of these could end the snarky opposition. Not all states have their records posted online but some do. It might even be possible to link from this post right to the supporting records. Then the apologies would really flow.
The last few comments focused on the lack of appropriate help for Julie when she reached out. But what about the cause of her trauma, if it was perpetrated by a person with NPD? What is the proper process for seeking accountability and ensuring that the NPD gets help?
Hi Observer:
You’re right. I’m not a certified professional mediator. But I do run this blog and moderate the conversation. Anyone can host a conversation. The point is to try to do it well, that is, fairly. I have edited nor deleted anyone’s comments. Anyone is free to comment, and we have seen a fairly good conversation take place as a result. It’s been a pleasure overseeing such a free dialogue. Thank you for your participation here too.